2021 Mclaren F1 Team

[SmallSoldier]

They probably would have been better off keeping the renault power unit when all things considered. It would have provided more continuity to the project and allow them to focus on chassis/aero, which is what i believe defines the pecking order in todays f1. I questioned the move to Merc myself. I never saw it as a game changer. Minimal gains in a straight line maybe and better reliability for sure but you have to rethink your whole aero philosophy with no complete freedom to do so with these token rules. Not worth it.

The Merc deployment in race trim is still very much class of the field, so I think there's a worthwhile benefit long term.

The plan was for the Merc PU to come in with the all new car regulations, but with the COVID delay it kind of messed everything up. I think it's on record that McLaren tried to stay with Renault for this season, but Cyril Abiteboul being Cyril Abiteboul refused.

On the plus side, they get a year of Merc experience for 2022, plus the suspension changes bring McLaren a massive reset opportunity on their weakness.

Merc deployment still class of the field? Thats not the latest i heard. They were clipping like crazy in bahrain and the honda deployment was reportedly better over there. At the end of the day does the merc pu help aston martin and williams compared to their competitors? I sure as hell cant see it. I think too many people dont realize that engine convergence is pretty much here and the pu is not as important as it was say 2-3 years ago.

Minimizing the impact of the PU due to AM/RP or Williams performance it’s not a good argument (because in that case, the performance of AT, Haas, AR are bases for the same argument for the other PU’s).

I don’t think there isn’t much or any doubt that Mercedes still makes the best PU in the grid, this is acknowledged by every team in the grid (and every engine manufacturer).

There is no doubt that it is superior to the Renault PU, not only in terms of Power and Reliability, but also in terms of packaging (and this has been confirmed by Mclaren)... In a sport like F1 where millions are spent for small increments in performance, using the best PU if possible is the best course of action.

In regards to deployment, yes, the Mercedes PU had derating issues in Bahrain, but it wasn’t “massive” clipping as you state and most probably will be solved through software calibration more than hardware fixes.


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[Hammerfist]

The Merc deployment in race trim is still very much class of the field, so I think there's a worthwhile benefit long term.

The plan was for the Merc PU to come in with the all new car regulations, but with the COVID delay it kind of messed everything up. I think it's on record that McLaren tried to stay with Renault for this season, but Cyril Abiteboul being Cyril Abiteboul refused.

On the plus side, they get a year of Merc experience for 2022, plus the suspension changes bring McLaren a massive reset opportunity on their weakness.

Merc deployment still class of the field? Thats not the latest i heard. They were clipping like crazy in bahrain and the honda deployment was reportedly better over there. At the end of the day does the merc pu help aston martin and williams compared to their competitors? I sure as hell cant see it. I think too many people dont realize that engine convergence is pretty much here and the pu is not as important as it was say 2-3 years ago.

Minimizing the impact of the PU due to AM/RP or Williams performance it’s not a good argument (because in that case, the performance of AT, Haas, AR are bases for the same argument for the other PU’s).

I don’t think there isn’t much or any doubt that Mercedes still makes the best PU in the grid, this is acknowledged by every team in the grid (and every engine manufacturer).

There is no doubt that it is superior to the Renault PU, not only in terms of Power and Reliability, but also in terms of packaging (and this has been confirmed by Mclaren)... In a sport like F1 where millions are spent for small increments in performance, using the best PU if possible is the best course of action.

In regards to deployment, yes, the Mercedes PU had derating issues in Bahrain, but it wasn’t “massive” clipping as you state and most probably will be solved through software calibration more than hardware fixes.


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It’s more a myth more than anything else. Just recently James key himself said that there wasn’t much separating all the engines in f1. Link to article here: https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-m ... optimised/

Toto Wolff has stated something similar in the past too.

Now let’s go through some facts:
Red Bull put 4 tenths on the factory Mercedes car in Bahrain.
Williams was the worst car last year even with the Mercedes pu.
Ferrari out qualified mclaren with a Mercedes pu in Bahrain

Where are the facts that prove that Mercedes is still the best?

People are still singing Mercedes praises because they used to be the benchmark for so many years. The truth is that all the engines are competitive now, even the Ferrari. Mclaren was under no obligation to make that switch IMO. I don’t think there are substantial benefits to the packaging otherwise we wouldn’t have all these merc powered cars struggling on the grid. So the only real benefit is reliability. Still not worth the headache IMO.

[SmallSoldier]

Merc deployment still class of the field? Thats not the latest i heard. They were clipping like crazy in bahrain and the honda deployment was reportedly better over there. At the end of the day does the merc pu help aston martin and williams compared to their competitors? I sure as hell cant see it. I think too many people dont realize that engine convergence is pretty much here and the pu is not as important as it was say 2-3 years ago.

Minimizing the impact of the PU due to AM/RP or Williams performance it’s not a good argument (because in that case, the performance of AT, Haas, AR are bases for the same argument for the other PU’s).

I don’t think there isn’t much or any doubt that Mercedes still makes the best PU in the grid, this is acknowledged by every team in the grid (and every engine manufacturer).

There is no doubt that it is superior to the Renault PU, not only in terms of Power and Reliability, but also in terms of packaging (and this has been confirmed by Mclaren)... In a sport like F1 where millions are spent for small increments in performance, using the best PU if possible is the best course of action.

In regards to deployment, yes, the Mercedes PU had derating issues in Bahrain, but it wasn’t “massive” clipping as you state and most probably will be solved through software calibration more than hardware fixes.


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It’s more a myth more than anything else. Just recently James key himself said that there wasn’t much separating all the engines in f1. Link to article here: https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-m ... optimised/

Toto Wolff has stated something similar in the past too.

Now let’s go through some facts:
Red Bull put 4 tenths on the factory Mercedes car in Bahrain.
Williams was the worst car last year even with the Mercedes pu.
Ferrari out qualified mclaren with a Mercedes pu in Bahrain

Where are the facts that prove that Mercedes is still the best?

People are still singing Mercedes praises because they used to be the benchmark for so many years. The truth is that all the engines are competitive now, even the Ferrari. Mclaren was under no obligation to make that switch IMO. I don’t think there are substantial benefits to the packaging otherwise we wouldn’t have all these merc powered cars struggling on the grid. So the only real benefit is reliability. Still not worth the headache IMO.

It’s your opinion and you are entitled to it... Again, Williams been at the back of the grid (mainly because they haven’t been able to manufacture a great chassis) doesn’t validate an argument against the Mercedes PU... I would argue that a team like Racing Point / Aston Martin been so close to the front runners last season with a budget that is a fraction of what the top 3 (including Ferrari) spends is a testament to the PU itself.

I will agree that the differences between PU’s isn’t what it used to be and Mercedes doesn’t have the huge advantage that it had during the first seasons of they hybrid era... But, saying that it isn’t the best I believe it’s purposely misleading, is it by an smaller percentage? Yes, no doubt about it, but it still superior (the likes from Ferrari and Honda still admit to be chasing them and “catching them”)... The comments from Mercedes itself downplaying their engine are not new and shouldn’t be surprising, they are “hated” by a lot of fans out there because of their dominance and the last thing they are going to do is brag about it.

Red Bull put 4 tenths in Bahrain? Unless you just started watching the season, it is clear that when it comes to recovering performance from last season, Mercedes and Aston Martin have been 2 of the teams hit the hardest by the change in regulations and Mercedes specially came into Bahrain with a car that was definitely not in a sweet spot (and yet they won)... One data point (one race) a trend does not make.

Williams is the worst even with the best PU because of their lack of budget, because they created a gap too big to cover without a major overhaul in the regulations and are / were in survival mode... Their performance or lack thereof goes beyond the PU they use.

In any case, I don’t think than anyone would argue that Mercedes has a better PU than Renault... The change from Renault to Mercedes was signed and decided before Covid was a thing and the teams were forced to run in 2021 with the same chassis as in 2020... For Mclaren there is nothing but benefit from moving from Renault to Mercedes and those benefits outweight all the “headaches”.

Benefits for Mclaren:

- A more powerful and reliable PU
- A PU with better packaging that allows for aero gains (demonstrated by Mclaren’s tighter body on the car, specially when compared to Renault).
- The chance to work with Mercedes during 2021, understand the PU requirements and further improve the integration towards the regulation changes in 2022.
- A stable manufacturer with no signs of exiting Formula 1 any time soon.

But that is just my opinion.


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[SmallSoldier]

Maybe part of the reason why Mclaren, even though they admit they might be behind Ferrari at Imola, aren’t overly concern about the practice times... Norris left almost 1 second “on the table” during FP2... Been able to improve his lap time by that amount if he would have put his best sectors together during a flying lap (and that’s not counting fuel loads, engine modes, etc.)




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[mwillems]

The team doesn’t seem to be too concerned about it based on the Free Practice report.

FP3 may give us a better idea of where the team is when they turn the PU up and run a low fuel lap.

Yep, the report just reaffirmed their comments going into the race. Downplayed their expectations a little bit, and that they had work to do between sessions over night. I've no doubt they'll improve the car for tomorrow, they almost always do. Just seems they're looking for a bit more than we thought this weekend.

Even when the Merc move may have hindered the team a bit in terms of improving the car by not been able to use Tokens to work on the front suspension for example, I believe that not only the gains from the PU are probably larger than the potential gains from a new suspension, from a long term perspective it was the right move to make it happen sooner.

As you well state, it gives the team a full year to get to grips to the Merc PU, understand cooling requirements, packaging issues and potential benefits looking into the future.

If Mclaren finishes P3 - P5 this season it will be worth it... Even with the ability to use Tokens, the gap to Merc / RBR was too large to cover in one winter.

I agree, the Merc PU move over new front suspension was the right call. They made it work last year, and with only 1 year left in these regulations it did seem like an unnecessary use of resources.

I think P5 would disappoint them, but a solid P4 would be seen as a success and keep the motivation up for 2022.

It might seem an unnecessary use of resources, but its the last time there would be no cap on resources for a while, so it was less likely to hinder development of any other part of the car.

There are still packaging improvements they could make a la Mercedes, but we're prevented due to token restrictions. Packaging benefits that can still be used next year.

[mwillems]

The Merc deployment in race trim is still very much class of the field, so I think there's a worthwhile benefit long term.

The plan was for the Merc PU to come in with the all new car regulations, but with the COVID delay it kind of messed everything up. I think it's on record that McLaren tried to stay with Renault for this season, but Cyril Abiteboul being Cyril Abiteboul refused.

On the plus side, they get a year of Merc experience for 2022, plus the suspension changes bring McLaren a massive reset opportunity on their weakness.

Merc deployment still class of the field? Thats not the latest i heard. They were clipping like crazy in bahrain and the honda deployment was reportedly better over there. At the end of the day does the merc pu help aston martin and williams compared to their competitors? I sure as hell cant see it. I think too many people dont realize that engine convergence is pretty much here and the pu is not as important as it was say 2-3 years ago.

Minimizing the impact of the PU due to AM/RP or Williams performance it’s not a good argument (because in that case, the performance of AT, Haas, AR are bases for the same argument for the other PU’s).

I don’t think there isn’t much or any doubt that Mercedes still makes the best PU in the grid, this is acknowledged by every team in the grid (and every engine manufacturer).

There is no doubt that it is superior to the Renault PU, not only in terms of Power and Reliability, but also in terms of packaging (and this has been confirmed by Mclaren)... In a sport like F1 where millions are spent for small increments in performance, using the best PU if possible is the best course of action.

In regards to deployment, yes, the Mercedes PU had derating issues in Bahrain, but it wasn’t “massive” clipping as you state and most probably will be solved through software calibration more than hardware fixes.


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I think the engine manufacturers have actually said there is nothing between them in max output.

The confirmed differences are weight, size, centre of gravity and smaller cooling requirement. Unconfirmed is better fuel efficiency and then there is energy harvesting, the merc seemed to have a longer sustained peak output, although currently that is glitching.

Peak output and power is much overrated compared to sustained peak output.

I also think there wasn't much in reliability between the Renault and Merc last year, with Merc starting with glitches this year.

For all the reasons above, I think it was the best move.

And doing it before the new regs, before the cost cap, performance related development restrictions and sidestepping the tokens and building a substantially different car was a masterstroke.

The front end will appear to peg them back more on those tracks but only because the car looks more complete on a track such as bahrain.

I'm expecting the same troubles on the same tracks this year. But what I think will happen is on tracks that we were good, we will now be very good.

Problem is Alpha Tauri and Ferrari look good too. Tsunoda looks like a very interesting prospect.

[Peter1919]

They probably would have been better off keeping the renault power unit when all things considered. It would have provided more continuity to the project and allow them to focus on chassis/aero, which is what i believe defines the pecking order in todays f1. I questioned the move to Merc myself. I never saw it as a game changer. Minimal gains in a straight line maybe and better reliability for sure but you have to rethink your whole aero philosophy with no complete freedom to do so with these token rules. Not worth it.

Don't forget when they made the decision to change engine they thought they would be putting the Merc engine in the back of an all new car under the brand new regs. Not McLaren's fault that Covid delayed the regs changes for a year

[Emag]

It seems a bit closer today so far, but Lando had 3 times deleted due to track limits. They have to try and rectify that before quali, might prove to be costly if he messes up a lap on q2.

[Ground Effect]

Better showing

[CjC]

What??
Are my eyes deceiving me?

[Mansell89]

Two strong laps from Norris- hopefully it’s not us turning the wick up early but he definitely looked like he’d got the balance right

[101FlyingDutchman]

Think it’s too early to tell still. Strange he’s close to Max except for S2 into S3. More to find im pretty sure

[CjC]

There is an Aussie who has some work to do

[Emag]

Think it’s too early to tell still. Strange he’s close to Max except for S2 into S3. More to find im pretty sure

Yeah, definitely more time, especially since he went faster in his second attempt (accounting for warm up laps, that's on a 4 lap tire). We don't know how much the rest have left on the table though.

[Chicane]

People jumping the gun after one Friday, going to the extent of questioning the engine change even. Mclaren are like Mercedes these days, show their hand only when they need to.