2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[SiLo]

If the maximum allowable garden leave is a year, then how come Ben won’t be able to work with Red Bull for the next 18 months?

I'm not sure that 18 months will wash legally. Most likely there will be some public pronouncements of legal action and the whole thing will be settled behind closed doors.

Indeed. I can understand Mercedes does not want him start before the end of 2022 because he has details about the 2022-2025 engines. Not particularly interesting for the latest 2022 Honda engine. But his knowledge will be vital for anything needed from 2025 and onward. And also for the adaptation to the new fuels between 2022 and 2025 he may have some tricks up his sleeve.

I guess it comes down to whether the person agrees to it?

[MKlaus]

I'm not sure that 18 months will wash legally. Most likely there will be some public pronouncements of legal action and the whole thing will be settled behind closed doors.

Indeed. I can understand Mercedes does not want him start before the end of 2022 because he has details about the 2022-2025 engines. Not particularly interesting for the latest 2022 Honda engine. But his knowledge will be vital for anything needed from 2025 and onward. And also for the adaptation to the new fuels between 2022 and 2025 he may have some tricks up his sleeve.

I guess it comes down to whether the person agrees to it?

a few years back, cyril abiteboul was complaining about aggressive gardening leave for mercedes staff which was making it difficult to hire from mercedes. so it is definitely possible that red bull's new signing cannot start before 2023.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... 6/3053560/

Abiteboul believes that such ‘aggressive’ contractual terms are not only frustrating for his outfit, but are bad for the sport because they prevent the spreading of knowledge that keeps the F1 grid competitive.

“Red Bull is not too aggressive in the way they are keeping their people, but Mercedes are the most aggressive,” said Abiteboul during a sponsor event with Infiniti in Austin.

“We signed up a senior person from Mercedes last year, 2017, and he is not due to join before 2019 because of the contractual situation.

[dans79]

I guess it comes down to whether the person agrees to it?

If they agree to it, and how much they might potentially get paid during the period of time they agreed to. It's not unheard of for someone to agree to not work for a competitor for an extended period of time, because they are still being paid at a reduced rate.

[SiLo]

I guess it comes down to whether the person agrees to it?

If they agree to it, and how much they might potentially get paid during the period of time they agreed to. It's not unheard of for someone to agree to not work for a competitor for an extended period of time, because they are still being paid at a reduced rate.

A year off at reduced pay (which is still good pay) sounds pretty great to me.

[Ground Effect]

I'm not sure that 18 months will wash legally. Most likely there will be some public pronouncements of legal action and the whole thing will be settled behind closed doors.

Indeed. I can understand Mercedes does not want him start before the end of 2022 because he has details about the 2022-2025 engines. Not particularly interesting for the latest 2022 Honda engine. But his knowledge will be vital for anything needed from 2025 and onward. And also for the adaptation to the new fuels between 2022 and 2025 he may have some tricks up his sleeve.

James Key had to stay home for barely 9 months:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Key_(Formula_One). So I also don't believe 18 months. Normally these departures are known internally for much longer, before a press release is sent out.

James Key had signed an extension less than a year prior to McLaren announcing his signing in July 2018 (his extension was announced in August 2017). Red Bull had said publicly that he would have to see out his contract before being allowed to leave. But during the saga, Albert Fabrega stated that Key had an exit clause that came into effect from 2019. So for McLaren to get him earlier, Red Bull wanted cash payment, some reports also mentioned Lando Norris in exchange. Marko denied wanting to swap Norris for Key because he (Norris) would be free to leave McLaren when their option on him expired at the end of September 2018. So it’s possible Mercedes are insisting on Hodgkinson seeing out his contract+gardening leave, that could account for the 18 months. They certainly aren’t going to make things easy for Red Bull.

[Tizz]

If the maximum allowable garden leave is a year, then how come Ben won’t be able to work with Red Bull for the next 18 months?

I'm not sure that 18 months will wash legally. Most likely there will be some public pronouncements of legal action and the whole thing will be settled behind closed doors.

Indeed. I can understand Mercedes does not want him start before the end of 2022 because he has details about the 2022-2025 engines. Not particularly interesting for the latest 2022 Honda engine. But his knowledge will be vital for anything needed from 2025 and onward. And also for the adaptation to the new fuels between 2022 and 2025 he may have some tricks up his sleeve.

I think his knowledge on how to run an engine development department is on the short term even more important. As is his list of contacts. He is probably already exempted from work. I've never fully understood this gardening leave. It is a mystery to me how they are going to police that.

[Lock2nl]

The point you are making would be valid if he would be available directly. But he is not. Worse case: he isn't before 2023.

I admit the gardening leave is a difficult thing to control. It is not like they are tapping your phone. It is highly unlikely that he can be prevented from taking a role in the engine development. Or advising how the factory should be organised and run. But he isn't physically present. That is pretty uncomfortable. So they would at least need someone else as backup. I would be surprized if they did not have that person already (e.g. someone from Honda).

[Wouter]

Helmut Marko today on his Birthday about Ben Hodgkinson.

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-red-bul ... otor-marko

Red Bull chief advisor Helmut Marko (78) reassures all Red Bull fans at F1-Insider.com: “Mercedes is now trying everything legally to delay starting work. But it won't take as long as Mercedes would like. "

Marko leans back, relaxed and reports with a smug smile: “The decisive factor is that we didn't have to poach him at all, instead he applied for our ad on his own. Nor is he the only one who wants to see us. There are also other top-class players whose names I cannot yet name. I only know one thing: if Niki Lauda were still alive, we would not have succeeded. "

So there will be even more top-class people coming from Mercedes to RB.

[Tizz]

The point you are making would be valid if he would be available directly. But he is not.

It is very common praxis that senior staff is exempted from work immediately as soon as they hand in their resignation. So he is available or will be soon enough.

I admit the gardening leave is a difficult thing to control. It is not like they are tapping your phone. It is highly unlikely that he can be prevented from taking a role in the engine development. Or advising how the factory should be organised and run. But he isn't physically present. That is pretty uncomfortable.

That is not true either. I have not been in the office since march last year. You have to adopt a different way of working, find new tools and perhaps rethink the artefacts you usually communicate but that is it. It is different but it works fine. The metrics say that people in many aspects are even more productive than usual. Having half the company on the road during the racing season anyway, I'm sure they have the processes, tools and the infrastructure in place since a long time ago.

[Wouter]

Max was in Milton Keynes yesterday and this morning and in addition to simming,
he also did something for Mobil1 together with Perez.

mobil1 thegrid
Had some pretty exciting guests on set today for the @exxonmobil filming day

@maxverstappen1 and @schecoperez competing on and off the track - stay tuned to see what we got up to!

Can't wait for the YT video. Sound on!

[Wouter]

[Lock2nl]

The point you are making would be valid if he would be available directly. But he is not.

It is very common praxis that senior staff is exempted from work immediately as soon as they hand in their resignation. So he is available or will be soon enough.

I admit the gardening leave is a difficult thing to control. It is not like they are tapping your phone. It is highly unlikely that he can be prevented from taking a role in the engine development. Or advising how the factory should be organised and run. But he isn't physically present. That is pretty uncomfortable.

That is not true either. I have not been in the office since march last year. You have to adopt a different way of working, find new tools and perhaps rethink the artefacts you usually communicate but that is it. It is different but it works fine. The metrics say that people in many aspects are even more productive than usual. Having half the company on the road during the racing season anyway, I'm sure they have the processes, tools and the infrastructure in place since a long time ago.

I hope it will be soon. But Mercedes is known to play hard ball. I do doubt it will last until the end of 2022 though.

About your argument that not being physically present should not matter, that is your take on the situation. I started my latest company only 6 days before the first lockdown. I have been working mainly at home since. However, setting up a brand new product line in that company definitely showed that meeting eachother physically was very rewarding in terms of speed and quality of processes. I can imagine something similar will happen if you setup a new automotive production plant.

[toraabe]

Indeed. I can understand Mercedes does not want him start before the end of 2022 because he has details about the 2022-2025 engines. Not particularly interesting for the latest 2022 Honda engine. But his knowledge will be vital for anything needed from 2025 and onward. And also for the adaptation to the new fuels between 2022 and 2025 he may have some tricks up his sleeve.

I guess it comes down to whether the person agrees to it?

a few years back, cyril abiteboul was complaining about aggressive gardening leave for mercedes staff which was making it difficult to hire from mercedes. so it is definitely possible that red bull's new signing cannot start before 2023.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... 6/3053560/

Abiteboul believes that such ‘aggressive’ contractual terms are not only frustrating for his outfit, but are bad for the sport because they prevent the spreading of knowledge that keeps the F1 grid competitive.

“Red Bull is not too aggressive in the way they are keeping their people, but Mercedes are the most aggressive,” said Abiteboul during a sponsor event with Infiniti in Austin.

“We signed up a senior person from Mercedes last year, 2017, and he is not due to join before 2019 because of the contractual situation.

Then the engine at last went really good

[etusch]

[teemah]

Exciting and crucial double header coming up, believe the next 10 days will set the tone for the rest of the year. C'mon you Bulls!


Image: Post race 2020 Portimao F1

Pre-Portuguese GP race column, Horner said: "We go to Portugal and then Spain and they are both great tracks but circuits we would expect to play to Mercedes' strengths, based on last year's data."

Mercedes won both the Portuguese and Spanish GPs comfortably last year - securing a one-two in qualifying and the race.

"Portimao was a good addition to the calendar last year, the surface will hopefully have weathered-in a little bit as the newly resurfaced circuit was very slippery," added Horner. "Barcelona is the benchmark we all have so much data from so it will be interesting to see who comes out on top."

"I am excited for both races and you can be sure that we are full of energy and motivation. If we can put Mercedes under a little bit of pressure at these tracks then that bodes well for the rest of the year."

"I always said it would take four races to get a clear picture of form, so now is the acid test."

Source, SkySports: https://www.skysports.com/f1/live-blog/ ... olumn-live