2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[nzjrs]

No, the Mercedes engine has a slight edge in power, and efficiency. Honda has closed the gap they have not overtaken Mercedes. The Mercedes seems to better under traction, where the RBR can carry a bit more speed in the corners, and is better under braking.

They way i see it, Honda has a slight advantage in one lap situation like qualifying, but they lose in race trim big time with clipping issues, especially in Portimao.

I didn't have access to watch the RB onboards but why do you think clipping / running out of ERS?

[e30ernest]

No, the Mercedes engine has a slight edge in power, and efficiency. Honda has closed the gap they have not overtaken Mercedes. The Mercedes seems to better under traction, where the RBR can carry a bit more speed in the corners, and is better under braking.

RBR could have maximized the team result by trying to beat Bottas. Had they put Perez on hards after running for so long in clean air, he should have been very quick at the end and would have had a chance at Bottas. Instead they tried to deny fastest lap and it almost backfired on them. Likely with the hard tire Perez could have bagged fastest lap anyway, having pitted so late, it would have prevented Bottas from even attempting it.

Not sure I agree - the Perez fastest lap play resulted in Hamilton not getting it, and tbh Verstappen should have really got it, so I would put that in the 'good strategy play'. Bottas getting the fastest lap instead of Hamilton is a good thing.

Perez was in the race enough that any safety in the last half would have flipped the whole race around. It was a reasonable gamble considering his strengths and the race at that time. I think they will be happy with Perez performance today. He is trending in the right direction.

I don't think Red Bull really care if Bottas gets 3rd or 8th, it's about taking points away from Hamilton any way they can.

Yeah, as discussed on the race thread it was a very clever little piece of strategy which spiced up the last few laps. Red Bull timed it beautifully, knowing that a domino effect would let Verstappen but not Hamilton have a crack at fastest lap due to the amount of laps remaining. Mercedes fell right into it by bringing Bottas in. It’s a shame really that the clever thinking didn’t pay off but it’s one to watch out for during the remainder of the season.

IMO Merc dropped the ball there. They should have pit Bottas at the end of lap 64 (start of 65) so Verstappen wouldn't get the chance to actually try. But you are right, it was a great move by Red Bull there.

[Wouter]

No, the Mercedes engine has a slight edge in power, and efficiency. Honda has closed the gap they have not overtaken Mercedes. The Mercedes seems to better under traction, where the RBR can carry a bit more speed in the corners, and is better under braking.

They way i see it, Honda has a slight advantage in one lap situation like qualifying, but they lose in race trim big time with clipping issues, especially in Portimao.

They lose in race trim ZERO time with clipping issues. That clipping is history now.

[El Scorchio]

Not sure I agree - the Perez fastest lap play resulted in Hamilton not getting it, and tbh Verstappen should have really got it, so I would put that in the 'good strategy play'. Bottas getting the fastest lap instead of Hamilton is a good thing.

Perez was in the race enough that any safety in the last half would have flipped the whole race around. It was a reasonable gamble considering his strengths and the race at that time. I think they will be happy with Perez performance today. He is trending in the right direction.

I don't think Red Bull really care if Bottas gets 3rd or 8th, it's about taking points away from Hamilton any way they can.

Yeah, as discussed on the race thread it was a very clever little piece of strategy which spiced up the last few laps. Red Bull timed it beautifully, knowing that a domino effect would let Verstappen but not Hamilton have a crack at fastest lap due to the amount of laps remaining. Mercedes fell right into it by bringing Bottas in. It’s a shame really that the clever thinking didn’t pay off but it’s one to watch out for during the remainder of the season.

IMO Merc dropped the ball there. They should have pit Bottas at the end of lap 64 (start of 65) so Verstappen wouldn't get the chance to actually try. But you are right, it was a great move by Red Bull there.

Absolutely! Outthought.

Or just not bring Bottas in at all. The other interesting dynamic at play is that I think Mercedes are more focused on WCC points regardless of which driver brings them in, and Red Bull more on WDC points for Verstappen, which could have forced their hand slightly.

[e30ernest]

Yeah, as discussed on the race thread it was a very clever little piece of strategy which spiced up the last few laps. Red Bull timed it beautifully, knowing that a domino effect would let Verstappen but not Hamilton have a crack at fastest lap due to the amount of laps remaining. Mercedes fell right into it by bringing Bottas in. It’s a shame really that the clever thinking didn’t pay off but it’s one to watch out for during the remainder of the season.

IMO Merc dropped the ball there. They should have pit Bottas at the end of lap 64 (start of 65) so Verstappen wouldn't get the chance to actually try. But you are right, it was a great move by Red Bull there.

Absolutely! Outthought.

Or just not bring Bottas in at all. The other interesting dynamic at play is that I think Mercedes are more focused on WCC points regardless of which driver brings them in, and Red Bull more on WDC points for Verstappen, which could have forced their hand slightly.

Not bringing in Bottas was not an option IMO because they needed to cover off Perez. Merc has always focused on the WCC first so every point counts. Was just poor timing IMO.

I thought Max had it for certain, and he would have if it weren't for T14.

[PlatinumZealot]

Amazing what pressure does to a driver, he is making far too many mistakes in both quali and races with a car that was the fastest in the races so far.

I would like to agree, but if I am honest with myself, I don't think Max's mistakes are glaringly bad, it's just that he has gotten more punishment for them because of where he makes them.
The little squirly slide he did wasn't big in and of itself, but he got punished immediately for it. Lewis made a similar driving error in Bahrain but he got away with it becauss he was at the part of the track were he wasn't vulnerable to an overtake.

So curious this racing thing. The same driving mistakes are punished more depending on where and when you make them.

[El Scorchio]

Amazing what pressure does to a driver, he is making far too many mistakes in both quali and races with a car that was the fastest in the races so far.

I would like to agree, but if I am honest with myself, I don't think Max's mistakes are glaringly bad, it's just that he has gotten more punishment for them because of where he makes them.
The little squirly slide he did wasn't big in and of itself, but he got punished immediately for it. Lewis made a similar driving error in Bahrain but he got away with it becauss he was at the part of the track were he wasn't vulnerable to an overtake.

So curious this racing thing. The same driving mistakes are punished more depending on where and when you make them.

Of course Verstappen got away with a little off track excursion in Imola too, which could have turned out somewhat worse under other circumstances.

[El Scorchio]

IMO Merc dropped the ball there. They should have pit Bottas at the end of lap 64 (start of 65) so Verstappen wouldn't get the chance to actually try. But you are right, it was a great move by Red Bull there.

Absolutely! Outthought.

Or just not bring Bottas in at all. The other interesting dynamic at play is that I think Mercedes are more focused on WCC points regardless of which driver brings them in, and Red Bull more on WDC points for Verstappen, which could have forced their hand slightly.

Not bringing in Bottas was not an option IMO because they needed to cover off Perez. Merc has always focused on the WCC first so every point counts. Was just poor timing IMO.

I thought Max had it for certain, and he would have if it weren't for T14.

Yeah, I also think they felt compelled to do it for WCC points, but you are absolutely right, they didn’t do it at the right time. Red Bull didn’t get the reward their clever thinking deserved.

[Sieper]

IMO Merc dropped the ball there. They should have pit Bottas at the end of lap 64 (start of 65) so Verstappen wouldn't get the chance to actually try. But you are right, it was a great move by Red Bull there.

Absolutely! Outthought.

Or just not bring Bottas in at all. The other interesting dynamic at play is that I think Mercedes are more focused on WCC points regardless of which driver brings them in, and Red Bull more on WDC points for Verstappen, which could have forced their hand slightly.

Not bringing in Bottas was not an option IMO because they needed to cover off Perez. Merc has always focused on the WCC first so every point counts. Was just poor timing IMO.

I thought Max had it for certain, and he would have if it weren't for T14.

Well, there were only a few hundreds between Bottas Fastest lap and Max’ as it stands so he had to push all lap. The Merc was the faster car, also over one lap. And still max almost pulled a pole out of the hat.

I personally think Merc hoped to lure max into a fastest lap attempt and then hit problems. PR would have a hay day.

Lewis is now already pushing this PR agenda to the absolute limit with his continues stream of little insinuations.

[dans79]

Lewis is now already pushing this PR agenda to the absolute limit with his continues stream of little insinuations.

it's all fair, this is ritualized war after all.

[e30ernest]

Absolutely! Outthought.

Or just not bring Bottas in at all. The other interesting dynamic at play is that I think Mercedes are more focused on WCC points regardless of which driver brings them in, and Red Bull more on WDC points for Verstappen, which could have forced their hand slightly.

Not bringing in Bottas was not an option IMO because they needed to cover off Perez. Merc has always focused on the WCC first so every point counts. Was just poor timing IMO.

I thought Max had it for certain, and he would have if it weren't for T14.

Well, there were only a few hundreds between Bottas Fastest lap and Max’ as it stands so he had to push all lap. The Merc was the faster car, also over one lap. And still max almost pulled a pole out of the hat.

I personally think Merc hoped to lure max into a fastest lap attempt and then hit problems. PR would have a hay day.

Lewis is now already pushing this PR agenda to the absolute limit with his continues stream of little insinuations.

It's a gamble though. Merc knows the WDC fight is likely between Lewis and Max. So if they want to maximize WCC points, they'd likely still want to minimize the chance that Max gets that point. Max is more than capable of bringing out magical laps so in hindsight, bringing in Bottas later would have been the smarter move. Not only would Bottas have less fuel on very fresh tires (he'll be attempting the fastest lap at the final lap), he would also deny Max the chance of even trying for a fastest lap.

In the end, Merc got away with it.

[Juzh]

No, the Mercedes engine has a slight edge in power, and efficiency. Honda has closed the gap they have not overtaken Mercedes. The Mercedes seems to better under traction, where the RBR can carry a bit more speed in the corners, and is better under braking.

They way i see it, Honda has a slight advantage in one lap situation like qualifying, but they lose in race trim big time with clipping issues, especially in Portimao.

They lose in race trim ZERO time with clipping issues. That clipping is history now.

Yes, clipping is not a problem, outright power is and that's even worse. Mercedes owns honda in race trim for whatever reason and has been since start of the season (sitting duck comment anyone?). It's basically impossible to overtake a mercedes in a regular overtake, whereas mercedes will easily destroy you if you give them but a sniff of opportunity.

[Jaisonas]

They way i see it, Honda has a slight advantage in one lap situation like qualifying, but they lose in race trim big time with clipping issues, especially in Portimao.

They lose in race trim ZERO time with clipping issues. That clipping is history now.

Yes, clipping is not a problem, outright power is and that's even worse. Mercedes owns honda in race trim for whatever reason and has been since start of the season (sitting duck comment anyone?). It's basically impossible to overtake a mercedes in a regular overtake, whereas mercedes will easily destroy you if you give them but a sniff of opportunity.

Thats the reason i speculated clipping or deployment in general. The poor race trim, cause it doesnt make sense having such a great power on quali trim and falling that much behind in race trim considering they use the same engine mode between those. Remember that only deployment changes between race and quali now.

[Zynerji]

Lewis is now already pushing this PR agenda to the absolute limit with his continues stream of little insinuations.

it's all fair, this is ritualized war after all.

This is the grossest thing I've ever read by a so-called "fan" of a sport.

[Macklaren]

I'm not sure Merc was naive enough to miss the timing on when to bring Bottas in for the fastest lap attempt. I think they did it early deliberately to give him multiple laps/runs to warm up the tires and if there were gusts of wind on his single attempt