Silly season 2021-2022-2023

[Phil]

Missed Apex also "reported" it in their last podcast that Bottas is not going to be offered an extension and could possibly know it already. Not factual or anything, but IMO a strong indication.

If this is true, then it begs the question who would be next in line. Is Ocon contracted to Renault/Alpin next year (yes I know he is on loan)?

[El Scorchio]

Missed Apex also "reported" it in their last podcast that Bottas is not going to be offered an extension and could possibly know it already. Not factual or anything, but IMO a strong indication.

If this is true, then it begs the question who would be next in line. Is Ocon contracted to Renault/Alpin next year (yes I know he is on loan)?

Next year really wouldn't be surprising, given what we know about the contracts of both Russell and Bottas. The mail story was speculating it would be during this season, though.

[214270]

Somehow Horner’s already made his comments:
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/6453 ... se-horner/

There laid to bare is my biggest criticism of Redbull, the incessant propaganda.

[Big Tea]

You could be right- if Norris keeps on bossing him. But then where does he go? No seat at RBR or Ferrari.

Alpha romeo?

that is reserved for bottas.

I think Bottas will get some sort of good deal to go to Williams with Merc blessing and assistance to get the team back to mid field at worst, fighting up from there. Bottas has been good for Merc, has lots of experience and has a good calm and steady mental make up. Just what Williams needs rather than bringing in inexperienced drivers and losing the as they develop. If the owners can do a deal with merc for driver engine and assistance, it would be best option for all, and could help merc with what to do with staff and cost caps, and Williams with relevant staff and networking

[Phil]

Like it or not - Bottas is still doing the job.

He is doing a better job at challenging Hamilton than any team-mate of Max has done since Ricciardo's departure. He is also bringing in the points - bar Imola of course, which wasn't exactly his fault. Mercedes is still leading both championships. I get that Mercedes has to look to the future - but as long as Hamilton is there, they can probably afford to keep Bottas as well.

One aspect I see though going in the future; If the cars are going to be closer in performance and the driver becomes more important again (relative to the entire package), then you'd rather want the best drivers in your team than the prospect of one of them driving against you. In other words - better to have the headache of two alphas and trying to control them, rather than battling one in another team.

[LHamilton]

Missed Apex also "reported" it in their last podcast that Bottas is not going to be offered an extension and could possibly know it already. Not factual or anything, but IMO a strong indication.

If this is true, then it begs the question who would be next in line. Is Ocon contracted to Renault/Alpin next year (yes I know he is on loan)?

Ocon is not on loan from Mercedes. He severed his ties with Mercedes to go to Renault. However, Wolff has admitted that Ocon might be an alternative to the 2022 seat despite this. And it looks like this is Ocon last contracted year at Renault.

Source: https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... candidate/

[Just_a_fan]

In other words - better to have the headache of two alphas and trying to control them, rather than battling one in another team.

Not if that results in this:

[MKlaus]

In other words - better to have the headache of two alphas and trying to control them, rather than battling one in another team.

Not if that results in this:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/upl ... _image.jpg

https://miro.medium.com/max/1116/1*4u9- ... 98Jvcg.png

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dy ... 205681.jpg

except in the case of vettel, ask the respective team principals if they wanted to let any of their drivers go despite those incidents. fans sitting on couch wanting to see their own fantsy driver lineup (devoid of any real data to assess) is hardly the thing that matters to the decision makers. their worry is probably getting caught on wrong foot in a strong competition with a driver handicap by not having two good drivers who can bring home the win when one of them is having a bad day. in that scenario, one odd collision is acceptable.
besides, modern day drivers are not rogues of the past and are careful about involving in situations. when they do, they are also willing to raise their hand and accept it. that makes it easier to manage them.

[Jaeger]

Daily Mail reveals: 'Bottas replaced by Russell before the end of the season'

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/83372/da ... eason.html

Most reliable of sources..

[Phil]

In other words - better to have the headache of two alphas and trying to control them, rather than battling one in another team.

Not if that results in this:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/upl ... _image.jpg

https://miro.medium.com/max/1116/1*4u9- ... 98Jvcg.png

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dy ... 205681.jpg

I’d argue you’d still want the two best drivers driving your car than one of them driving against you, possibly outperforming you race by race.

The situation at Barcelona 2016 could happen at any team under any circumstance, even between two less competitive team mates.

Put it an other way - if Max was driving that second Mercedes car, we’d see utter domination against RedBull.

Two alphas has another benefit: both drivers pushing each other. It’s probably one of the reasons why Hamilton is that good (having had multiple strong team mates where he had to prevail and better himself against).

I’d also add that you can also keep your drivers in check. Mercedes managed well for 4 years (and would have cotinued to so if Rosberg hadnt retired) despite the heated battle.

[Jolle]

In other words - better to have the headache of two alphas and trying to control them, rather than battling one in another team.

Not if that results in this:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/upl ... _image.jpg

https://miro.medium.com/max/1116/1*4u9- ... 98Jvcg.png

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dy ... 205681.jpg

I’d argue you’d still want the two best drivers driving your car than one of them driving against you, possibly outperforming you race by race.

The situation at Barcelona 2016 could happen at any team under any circumstance, even between two less competitive team mates.

Put it an other way - if Max was driving that second Mercedes car, we’d see utter domination against RedBull.

Two alphas has another benefit: both drivers pushing each other. It’s probably one of the reasons why Hamilton is that good (having had multiple strong team mates where he had to prevail and better himself against).

I’d also add that you can also keep your drivers in check. Mercedes managed well for 4 years (and would have cotinued to so if Rosberg hadnt retired) despite the heated battle.

Ferrari lost a title in 1982, Williams in 1986 and McLaren in 2007 due to having two number ones in the car. I don't recall a time when two alpha's made the difference in a positive way. So far it was only successful when the car was very dominant (Ferrari 1979, McLaren 1984 & 1985, Williams 1987, McLaren 1988 & 1989, Mercedes 2014-2016)

[DChemTech]

Daily Mail reveals: 'Bottas replaced by Russell before the end of the season'

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/83372/da ... eason.html

Most reliable of sources..

Yeah, They'd jump on "Kvyat to replace Sainz within 3 races" if anyone would blurt it out :p

[Phil]

I don't recall a time when two alpha's made the difference in a positive way.

And yet if you imagined either Hamilton driving for Redbull or Max for Mercedes, you could see my point. If Max werent driving at RedBull, they’d be nowhere.

Two alphas in your team gives you control. Control you can either enforce, or you dont. Sure, accidents happen. But enough to sway a championship? Mercedes proved during the 2013-2016 that they can make it work. There’s no reason why it shouldnt. The drivers drive for the team, not the other way around. Having two good drivers also reduces the influence/power of the driver, because there are two.

Remember when Mercedes threathened to sit one of their drivers out after they colided for the Nth time?

[SmallSoldier]

I don't recall a time when two alpha's made the difference in a positive way.

And yet if you imagined either Hamilton driving for Redbull or Max for Mercedes, you could see my point. If Max werent driving at RedBull, they’d be nowhere.

Two alphas in your team gives you control. Control you can either enforce, or you dont. Sure, accidents happen. But enough to sway a championship? Mercedes proved during the 2013-2016 that they can make it work. There’s no reason why it shouldnt. The drivers drive for the team, not the other way around. Having two good drivers also reduces the influence/power of the driver, because there are two.

Remember when Mercedes threathened to sit one of their drivers out after they colided for the Nth time?

Not necessarily, 2 “alphas” is no guarantee of success for a team and on the contrary, it could create a negative effect.

Alpha’s are natural leaders and therefore both will want to be treated as such, which creates unnecessary friction in the team, messes with the team atmosphere and can create a negative environment that could be detrimental to the team.

On the other hand, a Drivers Championship is generally more important for a team than a Constructors Championship, since it is what people ultimately remember, having 1 alpha and a wingman facilitates achieving that.


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[Jolle]

I don't recall a time when two alpha's made the difference in a positive way.

And yet if you imagined either Hamilton driving for Redbull or Max for Mercedes, you could see my point. If Max werent driving at RedBull, they’d be nowhere.

Two alphas in your team gives you control. Control you can either enforce, or you dont. Sure, accidents happen. But enough to sway a championship? Mercedes proved during the 2013-2016 that they can make it work. There’s no reason why it shouldnt. The drivers drive for the team, not the other way around. Having two good drivers also reduces the influence/power of the driver, because there are two.

Remember when Mercedes threathened to sit one of their drivers out after they colided for the Nth time?

In history the most successful teams were those with an undisputed star driver who was naturally quicker then the second driver. Senna-Berger, Schumacher-Barrichello/Massa, Alonso-Fisi, Hamilton-Bottas etc etc etc.
If there are two almost equal teams and you stack a fighting duo together in one or them, chances is they loose.

And in my imagination, like you asked, in a scenario where Hamilton-Verstappen was one team, I imagine a 2007 scenario. Or a 1986.