2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[djones]

I think Mercedes would agree to get rid of the T Wing in exchange for Redbull losing an entire rear wing that moves.

Like.... agree every single day of the week and be laughing hard.

[Afterburner]

I would like to see a camera pointing the diffuser, bending diffuser on high rake cars would fit like a glove!

If Redbull is desperate enough to use a blatantly flexing rear wing, you can bet they are flexing other things.

To me it seems like the Ferrari engine thing all over again. People can seemingly only compete with Mercedes by 'cheating' but once they are caught they take an even bigger step backwards and regret it.

For example, why did Ferrari use the engine cheat to the extreme - they should have used it a little bit so it was never obvious.

Redbull - why not make it flex just a little bit so its not so obvious that the entire world can see it on the FOM footage.

F1 is all about squeezing everything to the limit, i think RB know this was going to happen and they also know what FIA will do (new and stricter bending tests), without penaltys. They just had to try and get an advantage over Mercedes.

I bet they have a less bending rear wing ready to fit the car on the next GP if they need to.

[hape]

I would like to see a camera pointing the diffuser, bending diffuser on high rake cars would fit like a glove!

If Redbull is desperate enough to use a blatantly flexing rear wing, you can bet they are flexing other things.

To me it seems like the Ferrari engine thing all over again. People can seemingly only compete with Mercedes by 'cheating' but once they are caught they take an even bigger step backwards and regret it.

For example, why did Ferrari use the engine cheat to the extreme - they should have used it a little bit so it was never obvious.

Redbull - why not make it flex just a little bit so its not so obvious that the entire world can see it on the FOM footage.

The flexing rear wing on the RB is nothing new for this year, in fact is was already seen on the very first race last year but nobody cried that time. Even Ferrari had it for years and no one complaint.
I guess this years RB is too close to Mercedes it’s comfort. They want to have the world championship in the pocket as soon as possible so they can fully concentrate on next years car.

[SiLo]

I would like to see a camera pointing the diffuser, bending diffuser on high rake cars would fit like a glove!

If Redbull is desperate enough to use a blatantly flexing rear wing, you can bet they are flexing other things.

To me it seems like the Ferrari engine thing all over again. People can seemingly only compete with Mercedes by 'cheating' but once they are caught they take an even bigger step backwards and regret it.

For example, why did Ferrari use the engine cheat to the extreme - they should have used it a little bit so it was never obvious.

Redbull - why not make it flex just a little bit so its not so obvious that the entire world can see it on the FOM footage.

The flexing rear wing on the RB is nothing new for this year, in fact is was already seen on the very first race last year but nobody cried that time. Even Ferrari had it for years and no one complaint.
I guess this years RB is too close to Mercedes it’s comfort. They want to have the world championship in the pocket as soon as possible so they can fully concentrate on next years car.

Makes sense, Merc saw it and just left it in their back pocket to complain about when they actually have to.

[Hoffman900]

Everyone saw it in Austria last year and the FIA mentioned a new test then. We even talked about it here.

[Hoffman900]

From the rule book:

In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 3.8 are respected, the FIA reserves the
right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to
be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.

There is no new rule and the FIA has a rule on the books to do exactly what they’re doing. Push the grey area and get away with it as long as you can, which RedBull, and others, have for quite some time. They all know exactly that the FIA can institute a new measurement criteria... it’s in the rulebook.

[BassVirolla]

You are not allowed to have moving aero. For that reason I think the T wing from the Merc should be removed. It is fluttering all over the place, plus the (also outlawed) fin has grown to such lengths at the Mercedes that it also flutters like mad, it is also time for that to be outlawed. And those are only the parts we can see. If that much is moving who knows what else is flexing.

Massive fluttering could lead to stall in surfaces downstream of said flutter?

P.S.: Mods, feel free to move this. Way offtopic... but in response / relation with this specific message.

[El Scorchio]

You are not allowed to have moving aero. For that reason I think the T wing from the Merc should be removed. It is fluttering all over the place, plus the (also outlawed) fin has grown to such lengths at the Mercedes that it also flutters like mad, it is also time for that to be outlawed. And those are only the parts we can see. If that much is moving who knows what else is flexing.

Massive fluttering could lead to stall in surfaces downstream of said flutter?

P.S.: Mods, feel free to move this. Way offtopic... but in response / relation with this specific message.

I guess RBR are fully entitled to similarly seek clarification on that, if they wish.

[restless]

Mercedes implements DAS - nothing is done.
Anyone else makes anything else - nothing.
Anyone inside Mercedes complains about anything - new FIA rules right away.

PS: looking in Oxford dictionary for the meaning of phrase "lap dog"

DAS is very differnet. The rules have very specific sections about say no moving aero (which a bending wing is!). At the time they said nothing that covered how DAS was working. Or certainly, nothing as clear cut as the rules are for wings that move.

Mercedes always seem to be more careful about this kind of thing as they have a brand to protect. Redbull have a brand too of course, but its not directly related. Mercedes actually produce cars, so any 'cheating' in F1 is bad for how their road cars are seen.

When rules are changed without prior investigation, mid-season, 3 days after a mercedes employee (LH in this case) asks for such change, nothing but lap dog comes to mind.
There is NO rule in harm atm. All wings pass FIA-mandated tests, do you agree or not?
So, this change is only because maybe, MAYBE(!), this can help Mercedes to win again and cement LH as GOAT, not simply equal to MS.

[e30ernest]

Mercedes implements DAS - nothing is done.
Anyone else makes anything else - nothing.
Anyone inside Mercedes complains about anything - new FIA rules right away.

PS: looking in Oxford dictionary for the meaning of phrase "lap dog"

DAS is very differnet. The rules have very specific sections about say no moving aero (which a bending wing is!). At the time they said nothing that covered how DAS was working. Or certainly, nothing as clear cut as the rules are for wings that move.

Mercedes always seem to be more careful about this kind of thing as they have a brand to protect. Redbull have a brand too of course, but its not directly related. Mercedes actually produce cars, so any 'cheating' in F1 is bad for how their road cars are seen.

When rules are changed without prior investigation, mid-season, 3 days after a mercedes employee (LH in this case) asks for such change, nothing but lap dog comes to mind.
There is NO rule in harm atm. All wings pass FIA-mandated tests, do you agree or not?
So, this change is only because maybe, MAYBE(!), this can help Mercedes to win again and cement LH as GOAT, not simply equal to MS.

I think you misunderstand, there are no rules being changed. There are additional tests that are going to be made. Those additional tests are already allowed in the current rules.

[Hoffman900]

DAS is very differnet. The rules have very specific sections about say no moving aero (which a bending wing is!). At the time they said nothing that covered how DAS was working. Or certainly, nothing as clear cut as the rules are for wings that move.

Mercedes always seem to be more careful about this kind of thing as they have a brand to protect. Redbull have a brand too of course, but its not directly related. Mercedes actually produce cars, so any 'cheating' in F1 is bad for how their road cars are seen.

When rules are changed without prior investigation, mid-season, 3 days after a mercedes employee (LH in this case) asks for such change, nothing but lap dog comes to mind.
There is NO rule in harm atm. All wings pass FIA-mandated tests, do you agree or not?
So, this change is only because maybe, MAYBE(!), this can help Mercedes to win again and cement LH as GOAT, not simply equal to MS.

I think you misunderstand, there are no rules being changed. There are additional tests that are going to be made. Those additional tests are already allowed in the current rules.

I've bolded it and made it bigger...

In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 3.8 are respected, the FIA reserves the
right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to
be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.

[El Scorchio]

Mercedes implements DAS - nothing is done.
Anyone else makes anything else - nothing.
Anyone inside Mercedes complains about anything - new FIA rules right away.

PS: looking in Oxford dictionary for the meaning of phrase "lap dog"

DAS is very differnet. The rules have very specific sections about say no moving aero (which a bending wing is!). At the time they said nothing that covered how DAS was working. Or certainly, nothing as clear cut as the rules are for wings that move.

Mercedes always seem to be more careful about this kind of thing as they have a brand to protect. Redbull have a brand too of course, but its not directly related. Mercedes actually produce cars, so any 'cheating' in F1 is bad for how their road cars are seen.

When rules are changed without prior investigation, mid-season, 3 days after a mercedes employee (LH in this case) asks for such change, nothing but lap dog comes to mind.
There is NO rule in harm atm. All wings pass FIA-mandated tests, do you agree or not?
So, this change is only because maybe, MAYBE(!), this can help Mercedes to win again and cement LH as GOAT, not simply equal to MS.

Ferrari engine in 2019?

[JordanMugen]

The flexing rear wing on the RB is nothing new for this year

Precisely. I'm not sure why FIA is acting now?

Hopefully RBR doesn't lose too much laptime.

[JordanMugen]

What's amazing is how the wing fluctuates instantly up and down even as Verstappen adjusts the throttle in the middle of the corner at 0:15.

I wonder if this is a characteristic of the Red Bull which Gasly, Albon and Perez find difficult to predict?

[restless]

What's amazing is how the wing fluctuates instantly up and down even as Verstappen adjusts the throttle in the middle of the corner at 0:15.

I wonder if this is a characteristic of the Red Bull which Gasly, Albon and Perez find difficult to predict?

There is no corner at 0:15