2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[djones]

The bottom line is this:

- Flexible wings are not allowed, regardless of if they pass the current testing procedure
- The Mercedes wing does not flex
- The Redbull wing flexes a lot
- The FIA are putting new tests in place from the French GP
- Redbull lose performance
- Mercedes have a net win in performance

If as a team you decide to develop parts that very clearly go against the spirit of the rules and testing that's currently in place, you best hope there is a backup plan for when it's outlawed. It's a high and easy reward, but high-risk strategy, just like Ferrari with their engine cheating.

People can split hairs or interpret the rules however they see fit. But at the end of the day, the FIA are putting more testing in place to ban these wings and there is nothing you or I can do about that.

[Hoffman900]

The bottom line is this:

- Flexible wings are not allowed, regardless of if they pass the current testing procedure
- The Mercedes wing does not flex
- The Redbull wing flexes a lot
- The FIA are putting new tests in place from the French GP
- Redbull lose performance
- Mercedes have a net win in performance

If as a team you decide to develop parts that very clearly go against the spirit of the rules and testing that's currently in place, you best hope there is a backup plan for when it's outlawed. It's a high and easy reward, but high-risk strategy, just like Ferrari with their engine cheating.

People can split hairs or interpret the rules however they see fit. But at the end of the day, the FIA are putting more testing in place to ban these wings and there is nothing you or I can do about that.

Exactly. When you play these games you have to be strategic. Maybe Barcelona wasn't the right place for RedBull to run this and should be saving these designs for a Spa, Paul Ricard, or Monza.

[dans79]

That has now happened. So the rule is now being made more strict.

A slight clarification my friend, the rules are staying the same, but the test used to enforce the rules with be changed/ added to.

[Sieper]

That has now happened. So the rule is now being made more strict.

A slight clarification my friend, the rules are staying the same, but the test used to enforce the rules with be changed/ added to.

What I mean is that the movement allowed goes down from 3mm to 1mm. So the rule is now more strict. For short. It is indeed the same rule but with more stringent parameters, more accurately said.

[Jozsusz]

Mercedes implements DAS - nothing is done.
Anyone else makes anything else - nothing.
Anyone inside Mercedes complains about anything - new FIA rules right away.

PS: looking in Oxford dictionary for the meaning of phrase "lap dog"

DAS is very differnet. The rules have very specific sections about say no moving aero (which a bending wing is!). At the time they said nothing that covered how DAS was working. Or certainly, nothing as clear cut as the rules are for wings that move.

Mercedes always seem to be more careful about this kind of thing as they have a brand to protect. Redbull have a brand too of course, but its not directly related. Mercedes actually produce cars, so any 'cheating' in F1 is bad for how their road cars are seen.

When rules are changed without prior investigation, mid-season, 3 days after a mercedes employee (LH in this case) asks for such change, nothing but lap dog comes to mind.
There is NO rule in harm atm. All wings pass FIA-mandated tests, do you agree or not?
So, this change is only because maybe, MAYBE(!), this can help Mercedes to win again and cement LH as GOAT, not simply equal to MS.

You do realise the qualy mode has been banned mid season last year due to Honda complaining, right?

[Sieper]

I don’t believe that is a correct statement. It was both Honda and Mercedes pushing for an extension of qualy mode. And Honda had big, big problems due to it being abolished. Or have you missed Max’s start and engine issues shenanigans.

So to answer your question, right? No, wrong.

I wonder what actually prompted it. In the long run it has been an improvement as teams are now closer in qualy. Over the whole, at the top, and certainly in the big midfield.

[Marty_Y]

I don’t believe that is a correct statement. It was both Honda and Mercedes pushing for an extension of qualy mode. And Honda had big, big problems due to it being abolished. Or have you missed Max’s start and engine issues shenanigans.

So to answer your question, right? No, wrong.

I wonder what actually prompted it. In the long run it has been an improvement as teams are now closer in qualy. Over the whole, at the top, and certainly in the big midfield.

It was red bull.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull- ... -pressure/

Red Bull’s motorsport advisor, Dr Helmut Marko, has said the team did apply “pressure” to get the ‘party mode’ engine setting banned by the FIA.

The qualifying session at the upcoming Italian Grand Prix will be an intriguing one as we await to see whether a ban on qualy mode engine settings will have an impact on the starting grid pecking order.

Mercedes, via the aid of their ‘party mode’ option, has absolutely trounced the opposition on Saturday afternoons with Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas in their own exclusive battles for pole position.

But Red Bull, whose last pole position came at the 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix, were one of the teams to put pressure on the FIA to get the qualifying engine modes outlawed.

“It was very important to us that it was abolished. We put the necessary pressure behind that,” he explained to Auto Motor und Sport.

“The quali mode at Mercedes is so extreme that it is already distorting the competition.

“It’s the kind of intervention that we’ve experienced many times as we dominated. The wing flexibility has been changed from one race to another and again for the next race.

“I don’t need to talk about the blown diffuser. It is also the job of Formula 1 to ensure balanced, exciting races.”

[zibby43]

I don’t believe that is a correct statement. It was both Honda and Mercedes pushing for an extension of qualy mode. And Honda had big, big problems due to it being abolished. Or have you missed Max’s start and engine issues shenanigans.

So to answer your question, right? No, wrong.

I wonder what actually prompted it. In the long run it has been an improvement as teams are now closer in qualy. Over the whole, at the top, and certainly in the big midfield.

You are 100% correct that Honda was supportive of the extra time to calibrate the single mode, along with Brixworth, after the TD was announced. But that’s a very different matter from supporting the initiative in the first place.

RBR definitely had a Q3 map before the ban, but they seemed to gain substantially less from this mode than Mercedes, and Horner was very vocal in his support of the ban:

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/horne ... y/4856851/

Horner: "We were also encouraged with the engine technical directive that they are talking about. That again could close up the racing."

“There’s inevitably enormous cost that’s associated with developing these different modes and actually I think it’s a healthy thing for the manufacturers and if anything, if it creates better and closer racing it's a positive for Formula 1.”

Horner actually floated the idea of eliminating qualifying modes as far back as 2018:

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/2293 ... -australia

[McG]

The bottom line is this:

- Flexible wings are not allowed, regardless of if they pass the current testing procedure
- The Mercedes wing does not flex
- The Redbull wing flexes a lot
- The FIA are putting new tests in place from the French GP
- Redbull lose performance
- Mercedes have a net win in performance

If as a team you decide to develop parts that very clearly go against the spirit of the rules and testing that's currently in place, you best hope there is a backup plan for when it's outlawed. It's a high and easy reward, but high-risk strategy, just like Ferrari with their engine cheating.

People can split hairs or interpret the rules however they see fit. But at the end of the day, the FIA are putting more testing in place to ban these wings and there is nothing you or I can do about that.

Exactly. When you play these games you have to be strategic. Maybe Barcelona wasn't the right place for RedBull to run this and should be saving these designs for a Spa, Paul Ricard, or Monza.

It's been going in since well before Barcelona...

Austria 2020 at least...

[GhostF1]

The bottom line is this:

- Flexible wings are not allowed, regardless of if they pass the current testing procedure
- The Mercedes wing does not flex
- The Redbull wing flexes a lot
- The FIA are putting new tests in place from the French GP
- Redbull lose performance
- Mercedes have a net win in performance

If as a team you decide to develop parts that very clearly go against the spirit of the rules and testing that's currently in place, you best hope there is a backup plan for when it's outlawed. It's a high and easy reward, but high-risk strategy, just like Ferrari with their engine cheating.

People can split hairs or interpret the rules however they see fit. But at the end of the day, the FIA are putting more testing in place to ban these wings and there is nothing you or I can do about that.

You're making this out like they are blatantly cheating and ignoring the rules. That's total nonsense and the level you're targeting them is insane.

No one is splitting hairs or "interpreting the rules in their own way". The fact is, and there is nothing more to say, the wing passes all specifications and mandated tests required by the FIA. Full Stop. Why is this being treated as a fact of no importance??

And so then absolutely fair play, and game on to be frank. The fact a governing body has the stance "Oh you passed all design specifications and flex/strength tests we have in place? Hmm, we'll change the requirement until you no longer pass them" is terribly poor form.

Talking like it goes "against the spirit of the rules" is nonsense, no one is hiding anything and everything has been up front, this isn't like developing an illegal engine and hiding the fact that it is. It's been a non issue, legal and well within all tests and design specs, until now.. and only because Mercedes has decided it's tight and they're being raced too hard.

We even have McLaren forum members that never frequent this channel saying they should have all points stripped It's hilarious and borderline embarrassing to see how vehemently some people will push this.

[McG]

The bottom line is this:

- Flexible wings are not allowed, regardless of if they pass the current testing procedure
- The Mercedes wing does not flex
- The Redbull wing flexes a lot
- The FIA are putting new tests in place from the French GP
- Redbull lose performance
- Mercedes have a net win in performance

If as a team you decide to develop parts that very clearly go against the spirit of the rules and testing that's currently in place, you best hope there is a backup plan for when it's outlawed. It's a high and easy reward, but high-risk strategy, just like Ferrari with their engine cheating.

People can split hairs or interpret the rules however they see fit. But at the end of the day, the FIA are putting more testing in place to ban these wings and there is nothing you or I can do about that.

You're making this out like they are blatantly cheating and ignoring the rules. That's total nonsense and the level you're targeting them is insane.

No one is splitting hairs or "interpreting the rules in their own way". The fact is, and there is nothing more to say, the wing passes all specifications and mandated tests required by the FIA. Full Stop. Why is this being treated as a fact of no importance??

And so then absolutely fair play, and game on to be frank. The fact a governing body has the stance "Oh you passed all design specifications and flex/strength tests we have in place? Hmm, we'll change the requirement until you no longer pass them" is terribly poor form.

Talking like it goes "against the spirit of the rules" is nonsense, no one is hiding anything and everything has been up front, this isn't like developing an illegal engine and hiding the fact that it is. It's been a non issue, legal and well within all tests and design specs, until now.. and only because Mercedes has decided it's tight and they're being raced too hard.

We even have McLaren forum members that never frequent this channel saying they should have all points stripped It's hilarious and borderline embarrassing to see how vehemently some people will push this.

You must be blind not to see how much it flexes, and/or also have some low sporting morality if you think that's ok and to stick up for a company that makes an unhealthy disgusting drink. It wasn't right when they did it back in the day with their front wing but they got away with it iirc. Now they are at it again with the rear wing. The tests aren't good enough and they should be made more stringent to stop this filth.

This goes for those other teams front wings flexing too but to a lesser extent as it seems Red Bull have gained massively from this rear wing flex. By the looks of it, it must be nearly as much top speed gain as DRS, or they can run more downforce or find a balance that suits then. Disgusting.

[restless]

If as a team you decide to develop parts that very clearly go against the spirit of the rules and testing that's currently in place, you best hope there is a backup plan for when it's outlawed. It's a high and easy reward, but high-risk strategy, just like Ferrari with their engine cheating.

LOL

DAS was against the spirit of the rules.
Mercedes were burning oil for years. Which was, ahem, against the spirit...They were the first to start using it , and used for years. What was the punishment?

What had FIA done? In few years many people will forget these facts, try to sell how FIA is all for equal treating then.
Some companies are more equal than others, and he who controls media , controls the past, he who controls the past, controls the future.

[Wouter]

Normally, the FIA does not take action until an official protest has been filed.
Has an official protest been filed or are they only doing so in response to Lewis's comment in the post race conference?

[mwillems]

I wonder if the FIA knew, but were just leaving it until someone said something. Nothing good would come from Red Bull being slower. I'm a Mclaren fan, but it doesn't bother me, we would not have got close to them still and it made the fight with Merc more interesting, so for the sport it was a bit of a benefit. But yes, call a spade a spade, it was cheating, not living in a gap in the rules.

I feel like The FIA gave Mclaren a little bit of a free pass to make more improvement over this winter (The restrictions were not nearly as strict as was suggested) and I think probably they did the same for Red Bull here, and I can't disagree, it brought RB closer to Merc for a while and made the sport more interesting. We need the teams to be closer together for a better sport.

[mwillems]

If as a team you decide to develop parts that very clearly go against the spirit of the rules and testing that's currently in place, you best hope there is a backup plan for when it's outlawed. It's a high and easy reward, but high-risk strategy, just like Ferrari with their engine cheating.

LOL

DAS was against the spirit of the rules.
Mercedes were burning oil for years. Which was, ahem, against the spirit...They were the first to start using it , and used for years. What was the punishment?

What had FIA done? In few years many people will forget these facts, try to sell how FIA is all for equal treating then.
Some companies are more equal than others, and he who controls media , controls the past, he who controls the past, controls the future.

Yeah but that wing wasn't against the spirit of the rules, it was against the rules and specifically designed to not to be caught.

But again, I have no problem with this at this point. I just suspect Mercedes have known for a while but didn't care but now it is the heat of battle it's time to equal it out.

It's clear that it is illegal so I think that way that it was handled by Merc - a comment from Hamilton and none from the team - was quite a delicate way of dealing with it so that it didn't detract from the championship or become anything more than a rule tightening.

Kudos for letting it go on and kudos for the way they dealt with it, and I doubt RB are aggrieved, I'm sure they know if was quite cheeky!

Edit: I'm glad I carried that attitude as it appears Mclaren have one too!