2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[PhillipM]

With the hards on Max after a stop, Lewis would have just stayed out and coasted to the end on a one stop. Lewis didn't make a two stop because it was faster, he made it to get enough pace differential to overtake Max cleanly - he was *already* a good chunk faster than Max, that's why he could sit in the dirty air on his gearbox for so long with no problem.

[hollus]

In fact, when lewis made his second pit stop, the team did not ask him to “box box box” but to “box opposite to Max”. Had Max stopped, he’d switch to 1 stop.

[NathanOlder]

In fact, when lewis made his second pit stop, the team did not ask him to “box box box” but to “box opposite to Max”. Had Max stopped, he’d switch to 1 stop.

Exactly this.

Mercedes car in Hamiltons hands is currently a good chunk faster than Max's RB16b in the race at the moment.

[godlameroso]

When Verstappen undercut Hamilton, he had built up a 4 second lead, and he took his foot off the gas. He should have pushed with all his might, and gone for a two stop, second stop on hards. Had he pushed, he would have had at least a 5 and a half second buffer before Hamilton would begin eating into it. Push like mad until the gap is closing down to 3 seconds(to account for traffic), dive in the pits for Hards. Push like mad until the end, Hamilton would have pitted again, or tried to do the one stop. On mediums he would have struggled just as much as Verstappen maybe a lap or two later.

The only question mark would be Bottas, and it would not have worked out if they tried to use him. Verstappen would pass with much fresher tires, or Bottas would win eating into Hamilton's lead, as Verstappen would still come second. Or they both try the one stop and Verstappen passes them BOTH ON TRACK.

It's not over, Verstappen has the pace, he has the TEAM, it's just a matter of self belief, Brazil 2019 and Silverstone 2020 and Abu Dhabi 2020 weren't flukes. He can still win!

The bodywork discussion is boring, even if I'm wrong, fine I'll admit it, the collective consciousness of the forum is always right. Regardless none of that matters, we aren't in charge of the legality of the RBR, the FIA is. The chips will fall where they will.

That wouldn't of worked, ignoring the fact that he was "pushing like mad" and he still had Lewis stuck on his gearbox.
The hards were significantly slower that's why nobody used them, if he pitted for a second time and put hard tyres on Lewis would have done the same and put mediums on and had a significant pace advantage. They also could have split the strategy with Bottas free to try something different.

Nope after pitting he committed to a one stop, and was managing his pace to Bottas. After Hamilton pitted, and he saw how fast Hamilton was going, Verstappen increased his pace by one second per lap in an attempt to match Hamilton. Had Verstappen pushed instead of managing pace for 4 or 5 laps it would have been different. He lost nearly 5 seconds trying to look after his tires just at the start. Had he committed to a two stop he would not have lost those 5 seconds to Hamilton. Or the 12 seconds towards the end of the stint from having such a long medium stint. There's at least 18 seconds worth of mistakes on Verstappen's side if you count the bad pit stop. Most of it lost trying to extend the stint on mediums. Hamilton finished 16 seconds ahead.

18-16=2 the race was closer than it looked, just the wrong calls were made. Is Merceds faster? Marginally, you don't get that close in qualifying 3 times in a row unless the car has the ultimate pace. It's not a performance difference as much as it is a difference in executing when it counts.

[godlameroso]

With the hards on Max after a stop, Lewis would have just stayed out and coasted to the end on a one stop. Lewis didn't make a two stop because it was faster, he made it to get enough pace differential to overtake Max cleanly - he was *already* a good chunk faster than Max, that's why he could sit in the dirty air on his gearbox for so long with no problem.

One stop wouldn't have worked for anyone, the fact that no one managed to make it work at all is proof of that. The ones that tried went backwards, Ocon, Verstappen, Vettel, all went backwards trying to make the one stop work.

[Marty_Y]

When Verstappen undercut Hamilton, he had built up a 4 second lead, and he took his foot off the gas. He should have pushed with all his might, and gone for a two stop, second stop on hards. Had he pushed, he would have had at least a 5 and a half second buffer before Hamilton would begin eating into it. Push like mad until the gap is closing down to 3 seconds(to account for traffic), dive in the pits for Hards. Push like mad until the end, Hamilton would have pitted again, or tried to do the one stop. On mediums he would have struggled just as much as Verstappen maybe a lap or two later.

The only question mark would be Bottas, and it would not have worked out if they tried to use him. Verstappen would pass with much fresher tires, or Bottas would win eating into Hamilton's lead, as Verstappen would still come second. Or they both try the one stop and Verstappen passes them BOTH ON TRACK.

It's not over, Verstappen has the pace, he has the TEAM, it's just a matter of self belief, Brazil 2019 and Silverstone 2020 and Abu Dhabi 2020 weren't flukes. He can still win!

The bodywork discussion is boring, even if I'm wrong, fine I'll admit it, the collective consciousness of the forum is always right. Regardless none of that matters, we aren't in charge of the legality of the RBR, the FIA is. The chips will fall where they will.

That wouldn't of worked, ignoring the fact that he was "pushing like mad" and he still had Lewis stuck on his gearbox.
The hards were significantly slower that's why nobody used them, if he pitted for a second time and put hard tyres on Lewis would have done the same and put mediums on and had a significant pace advantage. They also could have split the strategy with Bottas free to try something different.

Nope after pitting he committed to a one stop, and was managing his pace to Bottas. After Hamilton pitted, and he saw how fast Hamilton was going, Verstappen increased his pace by one second per lap in an attempt to match Hamilton. Had Verstappen pushed instead of managing pace for 4 or 5 laps it would have been different. He lost nearly 5 seconds trying to look after his tires just at the start. Had he committed to a two stop he would not have lost those 5 seconds to Hamilton. Or the 12 seconds towards the end of the stint from having such a long medium stint. There's at least 18 seconds worth of mistakes on Verstappen's side if you count the bad pit stop. Most of it lost trying to extend the stint on mediums. Hamilton finished 16 seconds ahead.

18-16=2 the race was closer than it looked, just the wrong calls were made. Is Merceds faster? Marginally, you don't get that close in qualifying 3 times in a row unless the car has the ultimate pace. It's not a performance difference as much as it is a difference in executing when it counts.

Verstappen - Yeah just too slow. It’s impossible to keep them behind.

Horner - That was a good effort, Max. Yeah, I don’t know what else we could have done there, but good effort.

Horner - Unfortunately, like Hungary, they had a free stop behind them, so they had all the options.

Verstappen - Yeah. It helps a lot when you are clearly just faster. So I think it doesn’t really matter if they would have done a one or a two.

Horner - Yeah, they definitely looked like they got the upper hand in race pace today.

Source https://www.racefans.net/2021/05/11/wel ... -analysis/


Well Max and Horner disagree with you, but what do they know!

[TNTHead]

Nope after pitting he committed to a one stop, and was managing his pace to Bottas. After Hamilton pitted, and he saw how fast Hamilton was going, Verstappen increased his pace by one second per lap in an attempt to match Hamilton. Had Verstappen pushed instead of managing pace for 4 or 5 laps it would have been different. He lost nearly 5 seconds trying to look after his tires just at the start. Had he committed to a two stop he would not have lost those 5 seconds to Hamilton. Or the 12 seconds towards the end of the stint from having such a long medium stint. There's at least 18 seconds worth of mistakes on Verstappen's side if you count the bad pit stop. Most of it lost trying to extend the stint on mediums. Hamilton finished 16 seconds ahead.

18-16=2 the race was closer than it looked, just the wrong calls were made. Is Merceds faster? Marginally, you don't get that close in qualifying 3 times in a row unless the car has the ultimate pace. It's not a performance difference as much as it is a difference in executing when it counts.

I cannot determine whether you are right or not. But at least it's an interesting line of reasoning!

If the race pace would be more or less the same and VER would have followed HAM's strategy, we could know more about the actual race pace difference. Now it is blurred by strategy.

When they admitted it could be Hungary all over again they should have boldly chosen the attack, may be compromising track position, which they desperately held onto this race. The outcome could be just the same, but now it sounded as if they capitulated too early.

[Pany]

Engine is not on par and reliability is a concern. For this reason they went for one stop. With 2 stops you take advantage if you can push harder all the race. In any way you see it, in this formula all is governed by engine effociency, durability and tokens

[Wouter]

The Red Bull Drivers having a weekend with the Flying Bulls.
First they went to Salzburg. Hangar-7.

[PlatinumZealot]

The video posted above shows the wing squatting backwards due to wind load, and the same would have happened regardless of the type of the main wing elements RB chose to use. Lewis' comment came after Saturday sessions when RB changed the RW from full DF to medium DF, which was curvy ("bendy"). This is ridiculously stupid, as ppl trying to find things that don't exist. Could we move on please?

Keep dreaming, buddy.

No one in F1 calls spoon wings "Bendy wings!" And Lewis has been in the sport for over 14 years.

It was clear he means Redbull has a flexing wing. He is no fool he, has attacked them before with this same tactic!

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/hamil ... g/2550748/

Sounds familiar?

2011

That phenomena was spotted again in Melbourne last weekend, as were Red Bull's mechanics repairing the endplates after they bottomed on the asphalt and kerbs.

"Have you seen Vettel's front wing?" Bild newspaper in Germany quotes Lewis Hamilton - who estimated the performance advantage at half a second - as saying.

"Either we close the loophole or everyone will copy it," the McLaren driver reportedly added.


Red Bull's motor sport consultant Helmut Marko replied: "It was the same thing last year. They try it over and over, but we pass the tests every time."

2010

https://www.news24.com/Wheels/Red-Bull- ... s-20101004

[PlatinumZealot]

In other matters I think the RedBull should have race pace to unlock. No reason why not. We need to see Perez in clear air on the leaders strategy to really see what the drop-off is really like. Max could technically still learn from Perez in this regard, but currently he like won't be looking at Perez's data until Perez gives him a good reason to.

[zibby43]

In other matters I think the RedBull should have race pace to unlock. No reason why not. We need to see Perez in clear air on the leaders strategy to really see what the drop-off is really like. Max could technically still learn from Perez in this regard, but currently he like won't be looking at Perez's data until Perez gives him a good reason to.

I think that's going to be tied to degradation for RBR. They switch the tires on instantly, as evidenced by how easy it is for them to extract the maximum from the softer compounds in quali, and by how fast they are on outlaps in the race.

Meanwhile, the Mercs take a few laps to bring the tires up. But then they have the benefit of better life and more consistent pace across a stint.

I'm curious as to whether RBR will have to sacrifice a bit of one-lap pace in order to unlock that race pace. Of course, there are a multitude of other factors at play.

Finally, there was a good technical article (an excerpt of which I posted somewhere) stating that some of the teams this year have been focused on understanding their launch spec cars at the expense of bringing updates (given the impact of the new regs), and that this has been a more fruitful approach than simply bringing new bits to the car and ceding some ground in terms of understanding.

[Curbstone]

When Verstappen undercut Hamilton, he had built up a 4 second lead, and he took his foot off the gas. He should have pushed with all his might, and gone for a two stop, second stop on hards. Had he pushed, he would have had at least a 5 and a half second buffer before Hamilton would begin eating into it. Push like mad until the gap is closing down to 3 seconds(to account for traffic), dive in the pits for Hards. Push like mad until the end, Hamilton would have pitted again, or tried to do the one stop. On mediums he would have struggled just as much as Verstappen maybe a lap or two later.

The only question mark would be Bottas, and it would not have worked out if they tried to use him. Verstappen would pass with much fresher tires, or Bottas would win eating into Hamilton's lead, as Verstappen would still come second. Or they both try the one stop and Verstappen passes them BOTH ON TRACK.

It's not over, Verstappen has the pace, he has the TEAM, it's just a matter of self belief, Brazil 2019 and Silverstone 2020 and Abu Dhabi 2020 weren't flukes. He can still win!

The bodywork discussion is boring, even if I'm wrong, fine I'll admit it, the collective consciousness of the forum is always right. Regardless none of that matters, we aren't in charge of the legality of the RBR, the FIA is. The chips will fall where they will.

That wouldn't of worked, ignoring the fact that he was "pushing like mad" and he still had Lewis stuck on his gearbox.
The hards were significantly slower that's why nobody used them, if he pitted for a second time and put hard tyres on Lewis would have done the same and put mediums on and had a significant pace advantage. They also could have split the strategy with Bottas free to try something different.

Nope after pitting he committed to a one stop, and was managing his pace to Bottas. After Hamilton pitted, and he saw how fast Hamilton was going, Verstappen increased his pace by one second per lap in an attempt to match Hamilton. Had Verstappen pushed instead of managing pace for 4 or 5 laps it would have been different. He lost nearly 5 seconds trying to look after his tires just at the start. Had he committed to a two stop he would not have lost those 5 seconds to Hamilton. Or the 12 seconds towards the end of the stint from having such a long medium stint. There's at least 18 seconds worth of mistakes on Verstappen's side if you count the bad pit stop. Most of it lost trying to extend the stint on mediums. Hamilton finished 16 seconds ahead.

18-16=2 the race was closer than it looked, just the wrong calls were made. Is Merceds faster? Marginally, you don't get that close in qualifying 3 times in a row unless the car has the ultimate pace. It's not a performance difference as much as it is a difference in executing when it counts.

Still going on about this right?
You're math is flawed, how would Max have prevented the 16 seconds time loss..? By using the slower Hard tire, of which every team stated 'was nog a good race tire?' That would have lost him again a lot of time, possibly even more than the 16 seconds.

Both Red Bull and Mercedes have stated that the Red Bull is more prone to tire wear. This is not a problem over a single lap, but will give a difference over a race distance. And that's a performance difference.
Execution difference will also always be a topic as long as Perez isn't able to hang on to the leaders in the race.

[Sieper]

In other matters I think the RedBull should have race pace to unlock. No reason why not. We need to see Perez in clear air on the leaders strategy to really see what the drop-off is really like. Max could technically still learn from Perez in this regard, but currently he like won't be looking at Perez's data until Perez gives him a good reason to.

You keep saying this, but what is the evidence Max is worse then Perez at tire management, he did a very long stint faster then Bottas on yellow just last race.

[godlameroso]

That wouldn't of worked, ignoring the fact that he was "pushing like mad" and he still had Lewis stuck on his gearbox.
The hards were significantly slower that's why nobody used them, if he pitted for a second time and put hard tyres on Lewis would have done the same and put mediums on and had a significant pace advantage. They also could have split the strategy with Bottas free to try something different.

Nope after pitting he committed to a one stop, and was managing his pace to Bottas. After Hamilton pitted, and he saw how fast Hamilton was going, Verstappen increased his pace by one second per lap in an attempt to match Hamilton. Had Verstappen pushed instead of managing pace for 4 or 5 laps it would have been different. He lost nearly 5 seconds trying to look after his tires just at the start. Had he committed to a two stop he would not have lost those 5 seconds to Hamilton. Or the 12 seconds towards the end of the stint from having such a long medium stint. There's at least 18 seconds worth of mistakes on Verstappen's side if you count the bad pit stop. Most of it lost trying to extend the stint on mediums. Hamilton finished 16 seconds ahead.

18-16=2 the race was closer than it looked, just the wrong calls were made. Is Merceds faster? Marginally, you don't get that close in qualifying 3 times in a row unless the car has the ultimate pace. It's not a performance difference as much as it is a difference in executing when it counts.

Still going on about this right?
You're math is flawed, how would Max have prevented the 16 seconds time loss..? By using the slower Hard tire, of which every team stated 'was nog a good race tire?' That would have lost him again a lot of time, possibly even more than the 16 seconds.

Both Red Bull and Mercedes have stated that the Red Bull is more prone to tire wear. This is not a problem over a single lap, but will give a difference over a race distance. And that's a performance difference.
Execution difference will also always be a topic as long as Perez isn't able to hang on to the leaders in the race.

Obviously or I wouldn't have said it, very perceptive. The hard tire was never used in the race, it would have been difficult to get up to temperature but it's pace in the race was never known. You just know though, and your knowledge trumps my opinion. Of course the Mercedes cultists that take over the RBR team thread are always right.

My opinion is as good as anyone else's, if you don't like it, too bad. That goes for the rest of you.