Mercedes W12

[Just_a_fan]

Did anyone ever find out where the tokens were spent on the W12?

Still a mystery, I think! Or at least if not a mystery, no-one has confirmed where.

Which makes me think they didn't bother. I do think that Mercedes have done just enough on the car to make it 2021 compliant and will fiddle with little bits here and there, because they think / know that the car is actually good enough to do the season without major upgrades. It's a bit like when Ferrari used to start the season with last year's car and Schumacher still used to win.

[SiLo]

Well their pace advantage was so big last year it was quite clear they switched to 2021 very early, so I would expect them to maintain that early switch advantage unless Red Bull really do throw caution to the wind and go for it this year. But I don't think they can afford to with big rule changes next year.

[Just_a_fan]

It's an interesting gamble for both teams, isn't it?

Every race I look to see if Mercedes have brought an upgrade package to the W12 and every race so far I've been mildly disappointed.

[El Scorchio]

It's an interesting gamble for both teams, isn't it?

Every race I look to see if Mercedes have brought an upgrade package to the W12 and every race so far I've been mildly disappointed.

I wonder if they are just trying to be as economical as possible and not do anything if they can get away with it. For sure they must have things in the pipeline but if it saves money to keep them on the shelf for now and they are confident they can compete/win with what they've got, then why bother?

I do feel like there has been a noticeable shift in confidence over the last couple of race weekends. They've extracted a lot more from the base design and obviously feel there's more to come, and maybe they aren't on the back foot any longer.

Add to the relative gain they think they'll get if Red Bull have to do away with their rear wing design and perhaps they feel they are in a good place for the season.

[Marty_Y]

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12472 ... ules-reset

Mercedes reveal plan for only 'tiny tweaks' for title-contending W12 car over rest of 2021 before F1 rules reset

Toto Wolff: "This championship is going to go very long, and we believe that there is lap time left in our car, in our power unit and in understanding the set-up rather than adding a tenth or two in downforce

It does make me wonder if they are running the PU conservatively for reliability, and they know they can unlock more power if needed? This is purely speculative statement from me and not based on any facts.

[Big Tea]

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12472 ... ules-reset

Mercedes reveal plan for only 'tiny tweaks' for title-contending W12 car over rest of 2021 before F1 rules reset

Toto Wolff: "This championship is going to go very long, and we believe that there is lap time left in our car, in our power unit and in understanding the set-up rather than adding a tenth or two in downforce

It does make me wonder if they are running the PU conservatively for reliability, and they know they can unlock more power if needed? This is purely speculative statement from me and not based on any facts.

Surly if they feel pressurised enough to have to turn the engine up to unreliable territory they will be in a position where finishing in high positions will be more important then a DNF?

I see what you are saying, but it would be a bugger of a choice.

[atanatizante]

Here`s a video from motorsport.tv in which they explain what setup changes were made in order to compensate the DF loss by the new regs: https://motorsport.tv/embed/HQHErGfn-bl ... tup-monaco

They said W12 has a new rear-end and presumable one token was spent here. So what was modified at the back of the car?

[Stu]

Did anyone ever find out where the tokens were spent on the W12?

Still a mystery, I think! Or at least if not a mystery, no-one has confirmed where.

Which makes me think they didn't bother. I do think that Mercedes have done just enough on the car to make it 2021 compliant and will fiddle with little bits here and there, because they think / know that the car is actually good enough to do the season without major upgrades. It's a bit like when Ferrari used to start the season with last year's car and Schumacher still used to win.

Hi was thinking this the other day, it tallies nicely with James Allison’s launch comments about it being “obvious” where they had been spent.

[Marty_Y]

Still a mystery, I think! Or at least if not a mystery, no-one has confirmed where.

Which makes me think they didn't bother. I do think that Mercedes have done just enough on the car to make it 2021 compliant and will fiddle with little bits here and there, because they think / know that the car is actually good enough to do the season without major upgrades. It's a bit like when Ferrari used to start the season with last year's car and Schumacher still used to win.

Hi was thinking this the other day, it tallies nicely with James Allison’s launch comments about it being “obvious” where they had been spent.

Sorry for the stupid question, but what is the advantage of not spending them, can they be carried over to the next year, so in theory they would have more to use on the new ground effect car?

[El Scorchio]

Which makes me think they didn't bother. I do think that Mercedes have done just enough on the car to make it 2021 compliant and will fiddle with little bits here and there, because they think / know that the car is actually good enough to do the season without major upgrades. It's a bit like when Ferrari used to start the season with last year's car and Schumacher still used to win.

Hi was thinking this the other day, it tallies nicely with James Allison’s launch comments about it being “obvious” where they had been spent.

Sorry for the stupid question, but what is the advantage of not spending them, can they be carried over to the next year, so in theory they would have more to use on the new ground effect car?

Budget cap? That's all I can think of. Maybe to save resources for 2022?

As far as I know (from reading on this forum, admittedly) they cannot be carried over to next year, and they expired at the first race weekend if not spent. Happy to be corrected.

[DarthPlagueisTheVise]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... t-fluegel/

The Englishman therefore threw the subject of the front wing into the group: "There are photos of Imola in which the Mercedes front wing bends more than our rear wing. It would only be fair if the FIA ​​applied the same standard to the front wings." McLaren team boss Andreas Seidl would welcome that: "We are clean. Every tightening of the tests brings us closer to the top teams."

Red Bull is confident that the association will also tighten the thumbscrews on the teams at the front end of the car. And what does it cost to build a new front wing? "More than half a million. At least according to our standards," reveals Horner. So it would be in the competition to inflict the greatest possible damage on the opponent, undecided.

Is the W12's FW really that flexy ? I know the w11 FW was but haven't seen any videos of the w12 from the nose shot.

EDIT: Found a video

[Tvetovnato]

Isn’t the whole front wing discussion a bit unnecessary though? I mean, there is a reason that the DRS is on the rear wing, since that is where the most drag is. Hence, if you make that bend, it would mean more for the lap time than a front wing flexing a bit? Feels like just a deflection tactic from Horner to bring that into the discussion.

[El Scorchio]

Isn’t the whole front wing discussion a bit unnecessary though? I mean, there is a reason that the DRS is on the rear wing, since that is where the most drag is. Hence, if you make that bend, it would mean more for the lap time than a front wing flexing a bit? Feels like just a deflection tactic from Horner to bring that into the discussion.

Agree. It'll only become relevant if and when there's a more stringent test mandated for front wings.

[PlatinumZealot]

The thin ones appear to be connected to the wing at the back whilst the fatter ones aren't, that is if my eyes aren't deceiving me....

The thin ones are like a tongue if I am correct. They slip down intonthe pylon like an anteater's tongue does when he eats. The fat ones have some meachanism in the head.

[PlatinumZealot]

Is there a difference between 'developing' and 'refining'?

Windtunnel and major parts mostly. Very $$$$.

I guess Refining does not involve developing major parts in the windtunnel or building new moulds for the autoclave. It would be I guess simultor, 7 post rig, swapping of parts that already exist, and small hand-made parts for the floor.