2021 Mclaren F1 Team

[mwillems]

Anecdotal for the team... The Gulf livery reveal planning started as soon as the Gulf partnership was announced... Roughly 9 months of work until it was made public... Quiet a lot of work for something that sounds pretty easy to pull off:

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/2021/mon ... ry-design/


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Yeah that does sound odd.

[mwillems]

It would be the smart move... Not a lot to lose if they do and potential points to be gained if they do


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I fail to see how a protest could succeed

As long as the car passes the test in place at the time then it’s legal

When the FIA choose to implement a beefed up test is up to them, but until they do there is nothing that can be done about it

Well, without trying to go way off-topic on the Team Thread (there is plenty of debate already going on in the Flexi Wing thread)... Mclaren can protest the wings even when they are passing the tests.

There are a few points that make the probability of success from a protest high:

- There is Precedent: In 2014 Red Bull was disqualified from Qualifying at the Abu Dhabi race due to Flexible Front Wings, the wings passed every test in place at the time, but where deem illegal, regardless of the fact that they passed the test.

- The Test is not a Rule: The rule is that bodywork has to be “rigid” and with no degree of motion... That’s the rule... The test is intended to ensure that is the case, but the fact that the test may not catch the type of movement (rotation) and that the loads used may not be representative, doesn’t mean that the rule in regards to movable parts / aero isn’t violated.

- The rule allows flexibility but also determines degree of motion: If I’m not wrong, the rules do allow for certain flexibility since the parts can’t be infinitely rigid, but they do mention 1 degree of motion... Is the movement of the Red Bull more than 1 degree? That’s something that we don’t know and can’t accurately measure just based on the footage.

That’s why during the press conference yesterday, Wolf made a comment of the matter going all the way to the ICA and it could very well be the case... If Mclaren is very certain that their wing adheres to the rules, they can protest their rivals wings (at which point is the duty of the rivals to proof that their wings are in fact legal)... For Mclaren is a win-win situation if they protest:

A) If the wings are deemed legal and no further action is taken, they have disrupted their rivals, forced them to use resources to proof that their wings are legal.

B) If the wings are deemed illegal and penalties are applied, it helps in the constructors championship

I don’t see how a potential protest would be detrimental for the team.


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The other thing is that Mclaren and Mercedes could go to the ICA, but that would be big news and the sponsors and the boards of the respective companies would have to consider if there would be a negative impact from being embroiled in such a legal dispute.

On the whole, the FIA have been more lenient since liberty took over. However even with just the rear brake ducts on the RP last year, essentially just getting caught on a technicality as the product was purchased before it became illegal to purchase said product, the FIA did impose a penalty from the sporting regulations.

So aside from the brand implications is seems like a protest alone should garner some kind of penalty. But again, would that make Mercedes look unsportsmanlike in the press now that a title challenge is on? Yes to some people it probably would. Would Mclaren go it alone, maybe, but possibly not.

I hope they press it, but I wouldn't consider it a win-win situation.

[SmallSoldier]

I fail to see how a protest could succeed

As long as the car passes the test in place at the time then it’s legal

When the FIA choose to implement a beefed up test is up to them, but until they do there is nothing that can be done about it

Well, without trying to go way off-topic on the Team Thread (there is plenty of debate already going on in the Flexi Wing thread)... Mclaren can protest the wings even when they are passing the tests.

There are a few points that make the probability of success from a protest high:

- There is Precedent: In 2014 Red Bull was disqualified from Qualifying at the Abu Dhabi race due to Flexible Front Wings, the wings passed every test in place at the time, but where deem illegal, regardless of the fact that they passed the test.

- The Test is not a Rule: The rule is that bodywork has to be “rigid” and with no degree of motion... That’s the rule... The test is intended to ensure that is the case, but the fact that the test may not catch the type of movement (rotation) and that the loads used may not be representative, doesn’t mean that the rule in regards to movable parts / aero isn’t violated.

- The rule allows flexibility but also determines degree of motion: If I’m not wrong, the rules do allow for certain flexibility since the parts can’t be infinitely rigid, but they do mention 1 degree of motion... Is the movement of the Red Bull more than 1 degree? That’s something that we don’t know and can’t accurately measure just based on the footage.

That’s why during the press conference yesterday, Wolf made a comment of the matter going all the way to the ICA and it could very well be the case... If Mclaren is very certain that their wing adheres to the rules, they can protest their rivals wings (at which point is the duty of the rivals to proof that their wings are in fact legal)... For Mclaren is a win-win situation if they protest:

A) If the wings are deemed legal and no further action is taken, they have disrupted their rivals, forced them to use resources to proof that their wings are legal.

B) If the wings are deemed illegal and penalties are applied, it helps in the constructors championship

I don’t see how a potential protest would be detrimental for the team.


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The other thing is that Mclaren and Mercedes could go to the ICA, but that would be big news and the sponsors and the boards of the respective companies would have to consider if there would be a negative impact from being embroiled in such a legal dispute.

On the whole, the FIA have been more lenient since liberty took over. However even with just the rear brake ducts on the RP last year, essentially just getting caught on a technicality as the product was purchased before it became illegal to purchase said product, the FIA did impose a penalty from the sporting regulations.

So aside from the brand implications is seems like a protest alone should garner some kind of penalty. But again, would that make Mercedes look unsportsmanlike in the press now that a title challenge is on? Yes to some people it probably would. Would Mclaren go it alone, maybe, but possibly not.

I hope they press it, but I wouldn't consider it a win-win situation.

I don’t see why it would create negative press for Mclaren (or Mercedes for that sake)... Mclaren complies to a set of regulations and they would be protesting that their competitors aren’t... I’m having a hard time understanding how it could negatively impact them from an image perspective.

The team is competing and fighting for a potential P3 in the Championship, if their competitors are using an unfair advantage, bringing it up and protesting is the right thing to do if they are trying to protect their interests and by adjacency those of their sponsors.

Seidl has already been very vocal about it and stated that they are discussing this already with the FIA and if no action is taken, they are keeping their options open.


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[Mclarensenna]

https://racer.com/2021/05/21/mclaren-ga ... potential/
"“How much easier it will make their lives in the factory — the guys and girls who have to travel all the way to Germany every time and go to the wind tunnel, spend time in isolation, there for three weeks, then come back and spend time in isolation again and so on — so we lose a lot of time compared to other teams who are able to do it a lot quicker."

I knew not having the latest wind tunnel was a small handicap but this is just a while new level of handicap. Mclaren rally has no business beating or even matching teams like Ferrari/Renault who have the latest wind tunnels on site. I think once the new wind tunnel is built and handicap abolished Mclaren will be a force to reckon with fighting for championships!

[McL-H]

https://racer.com/2021/05/21/mclaren-ga ... potential/
"“How much easier it will make their lives in the factory — the guys and girls who have to travel all the way to Germany every time and go to the wind tunnel, spend time in isolation, there for three weeks, then come back and spend time in isolation again and so on — so we lose a lot of time compared to other teams who are able to do it a lot quicker."

I knew not having the latest wind tunnel was a small handicap but this is just a while new level of handicap. Mclaren rally has no business beating or even matching teams like Ferrari/Renault who have the latest wind tunnels on site. I think once the new wind tunnel is built and handicap abolished Mclaren will be a force to reckon with fighting for championships!

We won’t be having this wind tunnel for about a year from now. Meanwhile we are just continuing to lose precious time compared to our rivals. We know that it is almost impossible to be chasing the top runners amid new regulations. We should be at the front as soon as 2022.

[Darth-Piekus]

Is the wind tunnel that much mandatory to be on top? Also out of curiosity if Ferrari and Red Bull has these Flexible Wings from Barcelona haven't they gained an unfair advantage? If these teams are forced to change these wings will they have their points removed like RP last year?

Finally we seem to be struggling in Monaco and there is a good chance we might lose that 3rd spot for now. It's not like it matters much this year as next year is the most important one. I don't know how Ferrari did it but they might be the top team here.

[Darth-Piekus]

https://racer.com/2021/05/21/mclaren-ga ... potential/
"“How much easier it will make their lives in the factory — the guys and girls who have to travel all the way to Germany every time and go to the wind tunnel, spend time in isolation, there for three weeks, then come back and spend time in isolation again and so on — so we lose a lot of time compared to other teams who are able to do it a lot quicker."

I knew not having the latest wind tunnel was a small handicap but this is just a while new level of handicap. Mclaren rally has no business beating or even matching teams like Ferrari/Renault who have the latest wind tunnels on site. I think once the new wind tunnel is built and handicap abolished Mclaren will be a force to reckon with fighting for championships!

Shows how much of a better job the team of Mclaren is doing compared to Ferrari and Renault and imagine what they can do when they get the new Wing Tunnel and new Infrastructure.

[MrGapes]

Im actually quite happy with our pace considering this is likely our weakest track this year... But damn Daniel really struggling.. around 0.8 to 1.2 seconds slower on most laps

[Emag]

Im actually quite happy with our pace considering this is likely our weakest track this year... But damn Daniel really struggling.. around 0.8 to 1.2 seconds slower on most laps

Bracing for a painful race here. Ferrari might jump up 20 points by the end of the weekend if they keep this up.

[adrianjordan]

https://racer.com/2021/05/21/mclaren-ga ... potential/
"“How much easier it will make their lives in the factory — the guys and girls who have to travel all the way to Germany every time and go to the wind tunnel, spend time in isolation, there for three weeks, then come back and spend time in isolation again and so on — so we lose a lot of time compared to other teams who are able to do it a lot quicker."

I knew not having the latest wind tunnel was a small handicap but this is just a while new level of handicap. Mclaren rally has no business beating or even matching teams like Ferrari/Renault who have the latest wind tunnels on site. I think once the new wind tunnel is built and handicap abolished Mclaren will be a force to reckon with fighting for championships!

Surely they'd just have a small team based in Germany for this then??

[adrianjordan]

Well, without trying to go way off-topic on the Team Thread (there is plenty of debate already going on in the Flexi Wing thread)... Mclaren can protest the wings even when they are passing the tests.

There are a few points that make the probability of success from a protest high:

- There is Precedent: In 2014 Red Bull was disqualified from Qualifying at the Abu Dhabi race due to Flexible Front Wings, the wings passed every test in place at the time, but where deem illegal, regardless of the fact that they passed the test.

- The Test is not a Rule: The rule is that bodywork has to be “rigid” and with no degree of motion... That’s the rule... The test is intended to ensure that is the case, but the fact that the test may not catch the type of movement (rotation) and that the loads used may not be representative, doesn’t mean that the rule in regards to movable parts / aero isn’t violated.

- The rule allows flexibility but also determines degree of motion: If I’m not wrong, the rules do allow for certain flexibility since the parts can’t be infinitely rigid, but they do mention 1 degree of motion... Is the movement of the Red Bull more than 1 degree? That’s something that we don’t know and can’t accurately measure just based on the footage.

That’s why during the press conference yesterday, Wolf made a comment of the matter going all the way to the ICA and it could very well be the case... If Mclaren is very certain that their wing adheres to the rules, they can protest their rivals wings (at which point is the duty of the rivals to proof that their wings are in fact legal)... For Mclaren is a win-win situation if they protest:

A) If the wings are deemed legal and no further action is taken, they have disrupted their rivals, forced them to use resources to proof that their wings are legal.

B) If the wings are deemed illegal and penalties are applied, it helps in the constructors championship

I don’t see how a potential protest would be detrimental for the team.


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The other thing is that Mclaren and Mercedes could go to the ICA, but that would be big news and the sponsors and the boards of the respective companies would have to consider if there would be a negative impact from being embroiled in such a legal dispute.

On the whole, the FIA have been more lenient since liberty took over. However even with just the rear brake ducts on the RP last year, essentially just getting caught on a technicality as the product was purchased before it became illegal to purchase said product, the FIA did impose a penalty from the sporting regulations.

So aside from the brand implications is seems like a protest alone should garner some kind of penalty. But again, would that make Mercedes look unsportsmanlike in the press now that a title challenge is on? Yes to some people it probably would. Would Mclaren go it alone, maybe, but possibly not.

I hope they press it, but I wouldn't consider it a win-win situation.

I don’t see why it would create negative press for Mclaren (or Mercedes for that sake)... Mclaren complies to a set of regulations and they would be protesting that their competitors aren’t... I’m having a hard time understanding how it could negatively impact them from an image perspective.

The team is competing and fighting for a potential P3 in the Championship, if their competitors are using an unfair advantage, bringing it up and protesting is the right thing to do if they are trying to protect their interests and by adjacency those of their sponsors.

Seidl has already been very vocal about it and stated that they are discussing this already with the FIA and if no action is taken, they are keeping their options open.


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I agree. Also, let's be honest, the vast majority of fans don't care about the protest etc. Only a minority of fans and, I suspect, those fans that would care, will have quite a strong allegiance to one team or the other.

There is another possibility, Mercedes uses Aston Martin to lodge the protest, thus keeping their own nose clean as it were.

I wonder, would McLaren just protest Ferrari, their closest rivals this season, or would they go after Red Bull as well in the hopes of gaining even more points?

[Darth-Piekus]

Well if there is an unfair advantage no matter who has it I think they should protest.

[chrisgr]

FP3 has been more representative of the qualify session. Things are not looking good for Ric. I didnt watched FP3 though. I hope both drivers find a clear lap.

[Darth-Piekus]

Perhaps we might be able to squeeze one or two more tenths with the engine revved up for qualifying but I dont think we can beat Ferrari here but it's Monaco. An accident always happens and changes things.

Do you think we might not stand a chance against Ferrari in this circuit due to the slow corners which is our weakness?

[Emag]

Perhaps we might be able to squeeze one or two more tenths with the engine revved up for qualifying but I dont think we can beat Ferrari here but it's Monaco. An accident always happens and changes things.

Do you think we might not stand a chance against Ferrari in this circuit due to the slow corners which is our weakness?

This weekend was always going to be about damage limitation, but Ferrari is stronger than I expected. I am just hoping RB and Mercedes can pick it up for qualifying, or Ferrari is going to walk away with a huge point haul this weekend. We are going to have to play catchup for the upcoming races if that's the case.