2021 Mclaren F1 Team

[MrGapes]

couldn't be happier we secured Lando ....

[mwillems]

Well, without trying to go way off-topic on the Team Thread (there is plenty of debate already going on in the Flexi Wing thread)... Mclaren can protest the wings even when they are passing the tests.

There are a few points that make the probability of success from a protest high:

- There is Precedent: In 2014 Red Bull was disqualified from Qualifying at the Abu Dhabi race due to Flexible Front Wings, the wings passed every test in place at the time, but where deem illegal, regardless of the fact that they passed the test.

- The Test is not a Rule: The rule is that bodywork has to be “rigid” and with no degree of motion... That’s the rule... The test is intended to ensure that is the case, but the fact that the test may not catch the type of movement (rotation) and that the loads used may not be representative, doesn’t mean that the rule in regards to movable parts / aero isn’t violated.

- The rule allows flexibility but also determines degree of motion: If I’m not wrong, the rules do allow for certain flexibility since the parts can’t be infinitely rigid, but they do mention 1 degree of motion... Is the movement of the Red Bull more than 1 degree? That’s something that we don’t know and can’t accurately measure just based on the footage.

That’s why during the press conference yesterday, Wolf made a comment of the matter going all the way to the ICA and it could very well be the case... If Mclaren is very certain that their wing adheres to the rules, they can protest their rivals wings (at which point is the duty of the rivals to proof that their wings are in fact legal)... For Mclaren is a win-win situation if they protest:

A) If the wings are deemed legal and no further action is taken, they have disrupted their rivals, forced them to use resources to proof that their wings are legal.

B) If the wings are deemed illegal and penalties are applied, it helps in the constructors championship

I don’t see how a potential protest would be detrimental for the team.


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The other thing is that Mclaren and Mercedes could go to the ICA, but that would be big news and the sponsors and the boards of the respective companies would have to consider if there would be a negative impact from being embroiled in such a legal dispute.

On the whole, the FIA have been more lenient since liberty took over. However even with just the rear brake ducts on the RP last year, essentially just getting caught on a technicality as the product was purchased before it became illegal to purchase said product, the FIA did impose a penalty from the sporting regulations.

So aside from the brand implications is seems like a protest alone should garner some kind of penalty. But again, would that make Mercedes look unsportsmanlike in the press now that a title challenge is on? Yes to some people it probably would. Would Mclaren go it alone, maybe, but possibly not.

I hope they press it, but I wouldn't consider it a win-win situation.

I don’t see why it would create negative press for Mclaren (or Mercedes for that sake)... Mclaren complies to a set of regulations and they would be protesting that their competitors aren’t... I’m having a hard time understanding how it could negatively impact them from an image perspective.

The team is competing and fighting for a potential P3 in the Championship, if their competitors are using an unfair advantage, bringing it up and protesting is the right thing to do if they are trying to protect their interests and by adjacency those of their sponsors.

Seidl has already been very vocal about it and stated that they are discussing this already with the FIA and if no action is taken, they are keeping their options open.


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Logic doesn't come in to how things are perceived, and taking legal action to try and swing a championship in your favour (Merc) or to bring RB closer to you (Mclaren) would be percieved differently inside of F1 than out. This kind of action would reach outside of F1 more than events normally would and that negative reception is a risk to the brands.

[mwillems]

What I’m wondering after qualifying is if the team may have found something at Monaco in terms of setup... It is definitely a unique track that requires a unique setup (pretty soft suspension to ride the numbs and kerbs)... But the improvement in an slow track is impressive... As a reference the pole lap in 2019 was 1:10.16 and McLaren’s best lap time was 1:11.4... This season pole was 1:10.3 (2 tenths slower) and Lando’s time was 1:10.6... That’s a massive improvement on a car that is supposed to be slower due to the change on regulations for the floors.

Maybe I’m over thinking it, but if the team has found something setup wise that allows more performance in slow corners, it could bode really well for the rest of the season.


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I think the car is much better in general. And an all round car too, I wouldn't say it swings much in favour of different tracks. There is definitely a bias towards high speed tracks with high speed corners, but I would go so far as to say the car favours them, it is just a bit better there.

It's a great well balanced car.

[CjC]

What I’m wondering after qualifying is if the team may have found something at Monaco in terms of setup... It is definitely a unique track that requires a unique setup (pretty soft suspension to ride the numbs and kerbs)... But the improvement in an slow track is impressive... As a reference the pole lap in 2019 was 1:10.16 and McLaren’s best lap time was 1:11.4... This season pole was 1:10.3 (2 tenths slower) and Lando’s time was 1:10.6... That’s a massive improvement on a car that is supposed to be slower due to the change on regulations for the floors.

Maybe I’m over thinking it, but if the team has found something setup wise that allows more performance in slow corners, it could bode really well for the rest of the season.


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They were being very coy in the build up to Monaco, not as downbeat as you’d expect coming to one of their weakest tracks. I get the feeling they’ve found something with the upgrades. By the time it’s fully understood, Hungary and Singapore could be a lot less difficult.

If you cast your mind back to 2019, Mclaren took their new aero package to Barcelona and didn’t improve that much that weekend and in fact the dreaded sector 3 deficit reared its ugly head, think it was Sainz that confirmed this to us in the media as well.
However once the team got on top of the new package Mclaren confirmed their position at the head of the midfield.
Maybe the same will happen again this season and they can stamp some authority on the fight for P3 in the constructors

[MrGapes]

https://the-race.com/formula-1/i-refuse ... ricciardo/

Wow I haven't seen this Daniel

I'm sure he'll get there, when you lack confidence Monaco isn't a great track

[SmallSoldier]

https://the-race.com/formula-1/i-refuse ... ricciardo/

Wow I haven't seen this Daniel

I'm sure he'll get there, when you lack confidence Monaco isn't a great track

He’s definitely baffled and I agree with him that it was a big difference to Lando this weekend... But, hopefully this will trigger an improvement in performance for him!


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[the EDGE]

https://the-race.com/formula-1/i-refuse ... ricciardo/

Wow I haven't seen this Daniel

I'm sure he'll get there, when you lack confidence Monaco isn't a great track

He’s definitely baffled and I agree with him that it was a big difference to Lando this weekend... But, hopefully this will trigger an improvement in performance for him!


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This baffles me... surely the telemetry overlay would show exactly where time is being lost?

[SmallSoldier]

https://the-race.com/formula-1/i-refuse ... ricciardo/

Wow I haven't seen this Daniel

I'm sure he'll get there, when you lack confidence Monaco isn't a great track

He’s definitely baffled and I agree with him that it was a big difference to Lando this weekend... But, hopefully this will trigger an improvement in performance for him!


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This baffles me... surely the telemetry overlay would show exactly where time is being lost?

That’s the interesting thing about the article... Daniel states that there isn’t a single corner in which he is faster than Lando, which is pretty odd... Depending on how you setup yourself for a corner it influences the next one, so been slow in one corner could provide you with a faster time in the next one... At Monaco, Lando has been consistently faster than Ricciardo on every single corner.

Not only does that show that RIC is still struggling to find his grove, but also how fast NOR has been at Monaco.

On the other hand, what we are also learning is that sometimes performance can be hidden by the equipment, Lando was critiqued heavily during his first season, but when one look at the performance of the current rookies, including those coming with a ton of hype (Like Tsunoda), it shows how strong was Lando even in his first season.


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[SmallSoldier]

Lando on been really close to pole and super close to P2




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[SmallSoldier]

Lando’s fastest lap from Qualifying... the half a tenth was there with a tiny bit of luck:




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[JordanMugen]

Lando’s fastest lap from Qualifying... the half a tenth was there with a tiny bit of luck:

https://streamable.com/hly65c

Do you have Ricciardo's lap? I would be interested to compare.

It could be as simple as the McLaren being an "early braking" car, so Ricciardo needing to completely reverse his late braking driving style is proving very difficult?

From the above lap, Norris does seem to brake very early, be already off the brake at the apex, and then be on the throttle very early. However I could just be saying that, as that is what I am expecting to see!

If Norris is indeed driving as the car requires, then Ricciardo trying to brake late and carry the brake to apex (and then be far too slow to get on the throttle) is understandably proving to be a disaster.

Could a simple change of differential improve this? Or is it an aerodynamic or suspension kinematics issue?

The car enjoys throttle while turning (and excels when you maximise getting on the throttle early while still turning), but strongly rejects braking while turning and requires straight-line braking only? As Rosberg explains in his track notes -- almost all the major braking zones at Monaco occur on (slight) curves, so that could be why Monaco is particularly disastrous for Ricciardo?

Again I crossed the line and I was like, 'Maybe I'm a tenth or two off,' but when I heard these gaps, that's when I was like, 'I don't have an answer guys, I'm sorry.'

But, just all weekend, even crossing the line, a lot of laps I felt good, I was like ‘that’s a good lap’, and I think at one point I was 1.2s slower than what Lando had just done. So… no answers at the moment.

Then again, even if I’m not optimising the car, I would still say like OK maybe I’m two tenths slower or three tenths slower. The whole, let’s say, call it a second, it seems a lot.

I’m not going to bury my head in the sands and be like ‘fix it, I’m the best’. I still want to definitely work at it, I’m sure there’s still things I can improve but this weekend’s been the biggest kind of anomaly of them all so far.

I'll certainly ask the question. I'm sure the team will do a dig and I don't want to say that's it or point the finger at the guys for not putting it together properly, but I'm sure we'll give it a proper look.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/i-refuse ... ricciardo/
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricc ... s/6513649/

[FittingMechanics]

Ricciardo is known for his dive bombs and late braking. This style needs a car that can turn strongly after you are off the brakes. McLaren seems to need to brake in order to turn (trail braking). This is opposite of what Ricciardo wants to do.

I'm guessing this type of track makes it extremely obvious. I wonder if teams should do sim runs before signing up their drivers. Seems like "driver-car fit" should be high on the list.

Disclaimer: I am not a driving expert.

[SmallSoldier]

Team Report after qualifying:

Lando Norris:

"Really good qualifying – I’m very pleased to be P5. We were only two tenths off pole and just half a tenth off P2 – which isn't a lot – so it was really close. But I feel like I did a good lap and I don’t think there was anything more in it. I'm really happy – although knowing that by doing something different you could've maybe gained that half a tenth and quite a few positions is tough, but I’m still pleased with how we did. It was a good day. It’s been a good weekend for us, and we extracted everything we could out of the car. On my final Q3 lap especially, we took quite a few risks, but it all paid off and it was definitely one of the best laps I've done in my career. We did a good job today as a team and we just need to try to finish it off tomorrow."

Daniel Ricciardo:

“It’s more confusing than frustrating at the moment, that’s the emotion I'm feeling. There were some laps that, for sure, were a bit messy which explained maybe a couple of tenths. Since Thursday we’ve made some progress and this was continuing throughout qualifying with each run. I had to stop at the scales towards the end of Q2, so we didn’t have the tyres as we wanted which put us on the back foot a little bit for the final run.

“Usually, you can feel when you’re a bit off the pace, but I haven’t had that, and I don’t feel like I've forgotten how to drive this track. I’m still getting up to speed with the driving style needed to get the maximum out of this car, and maybe that’s amplified here in Monaco. But, we know what we need to work on and we’ll keep pushing for the race tomorrow.”

Andreas Seidl:

“A mixed qualifying result for us today. Lando continued to show strong pace and finished P5, a few milliseconds from P2, which is encouraging to see. Daniel, after a difficult start here on Thursday, improved continuously through the sessions today. He was put on the back foot for his final run in Q2 due to having to stop at the weighbridge, missing the right tyre preparation. Ending qualifying in P12 still puts us in a position with Daniel to fight for good points.  

“Well done to the entire team for another very well-executed qualifying session. This is an iconic track, and we have an iconic livery to celebrate that, the field seems quite mixed up compared to what we usually see, and everything is set up perfectly for an exciting race tomorrow.”


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[SmallSoldier]

The other thing is that Mclaren and Mercedes could go to the ICA, but that would be big news and the sponsors and the boards of the respective companies would have to consider if there would be a negative impact from being embroiled in such a legal dispute.

On the whole, the FIA have been more lenient since liberty took over. However even with just the rear brake ducts on the RP last year, essentially just getting caught on a technicality as the product was purchased before it became illegal to purchase said product, the FIA did impose a penalty from the sporting regulations.

So aside from the brand implications is seems like a protest alone should garner some kind of penalty. But again, would that make Mercedes look unsportsmanlike in the press now that a title challenge is on? Yes to some people it probably would. Would Mclaren go it alone, maybe, but possibly not.

I hope they press it, but I wouldn't consider it a win-win situation.

I don’t see why it would create negative press for Mclaren (or Mercedes for that sake)... Mclaren complies to a set of regulations and they would be protesting that their competitors aren’t... I’m having a hard time understanding how it could negatively impact them from an image perspective.

The team is competing and fighting for a potential P3 in the Championship, if their competitors are using an unfair advantage, bringing it up and protesting is the right thing to do if they are trying to protect their interests and by adjacency those of their sponsors.

Seidl has already been very vocal about it and stated that they are discussing this already with the FIA and if no action is taken, they are keeping their options open.


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Logic doesn't come in to how things are perceived, and taking legal action to try and swing a championship in your favour (Merc) or to bring RB closer to you (Mclaren) would be percieved differently inside of F1 than out. This kind of action would reach outside of F1 more than events normally would and that negative reception is a risk to the brands.

Your opinion and I respect it... Mine is that there won’t be any negative backlash to a protest, the team is not doing anything wrong by protesting, therefore I can foresee what the negative impact from it could be.

Furthermore, once the protest is launched, the team won’t be the one going to the ICA... For the issue to go to the ICA, the Stewards would need to first rule in Mclaren’s favor (or against whomever is protested), if that’s the case, the teams that are penalized are the ones that file their appeal at the ICA to try and change the outcome from it.

Not protesting would be a miss opportunity.


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[godlameroso]

Riccardo's only hope is to start on hards and push for an overcut.