Red Bull RB16B

[PhillipM]

Or you're using the front ride height change on steer to keep the aero platform stable and so you don't really care if it lifts off on tight corners because it's the difference of a few % mechanical grip vs 5-10% of aero load

[marcush]

off topic alarm!
downforce translates into vertical force ,wheels off the ground transmit no forces between car and track.
having a wheel off the ground does indicate you are running out of rebound/droop travel , so that contradicts the idea of a
level aero platform , the floor works in relation to the track surface and you need the front edge of the floor as close to the ground as possible without touching .period.
And Downforce has one single objective : increasing grip of the tyres .For every increment of downforce added the tyre responds with more grip capacity , but of course this is a law of diminishing returns as when you overload the tyre it simply collapses....

!back to car development!

[PhillipM]

And you think the steering picking up the wheels when cornering doesn't lower the car, why?

[dans79]

They don't need downforce at the hair pin. They brake in a strait line and then only turn in once they have released the brakes. Not to mention they are no where near the mechanical grip limit of the tires at the hair pin. So its brake as late and as hard as possible, and then turn as hard as possible so they can get straight again and put the power down.

[PhillipM]

They do need it elsewhere though, and the consequence is when you've modified the suspension for a lot of lock at the hairpin, this happens.

Used to happen a lot more until the FIA limited the amount of ride height change on steering.

[ispano6]

Watching the onboards and rewatching the race, all four of Verstappen's wheels were on the ground at the hairpin, but for some reason Perez's set up was such that the inside left front wheel was off the ground and wasn't rotating. It was very obvious the two drivers had pretty different set ups.

[Bandit1216]

Watching the onboards and rewatching the race, all four of Verstappen's wheels were on the ground at the hairpin, but for some reason Perez's set up was such that the inside left front wheel was off the ground and wasn't rotating. It was very obvious the two drivers had pretty different set ups.

Or their lines are different though the corner. Or checco is still a little bit on the brake and Max is not. A tire can rotate and not be on the ground.

[PlatinumZealot]

off topic alarm!
downforce translates into vertical force ,wheels off the ground transmit no forces between car and track.
having a wheel off the ground does indicate you are running out of rebound/droop travel , so that contradicts the idea of a
level aero platform , the floor works in relation to the track surface and you need the front edge of the floor as close to the ground as possible without touching .period.
And Downforce has one single objective : increasing grip of the tyres .For every increment of downforce added the tyre responds with more grip capacity , but of course this is a law of diminishing returns as when you overload the tyre it simply collapses....

!back to car development!

The RB16 was three wheeling at the hairpin regularly. Serigo's car in particular when he was pushing in the later stages.

Remember the Hairpin is the slowest turn on the track, perhaps the slowest on the calendar, so down-force there is probably the lowest an F1 car will ever experience. Might even be zero. The outside front tyre should handle that without breaking a sweat. I think the interesting thing about it, is that it shows RedBull has something different going on to the other cars on their front suspension.

[Stu]

off topic alarm!
downforce translates into vertical force ,wheels off the ground transmit no forces between car and track.
having a wheel off the ground does indicate you are running out of rebound/droop travel , so that contradicts the idea of a
level aero platform , the floor works in relation to the track surface and you need the front edge of the floor as close to the ground as possible without touching .period.
And Downforce has one single objective : increasing grip of the tyres .For every increment of downforce added the tyre responds with more grip capacity , but of course this is a law of diminishing returns as when you overload the tyre it simply collapses....

!back to car development!

The RB16 was three wheeling at the hairpin regularly. Serigo's car in particular when he was pushing in the later stages.

Remember the Hairpin is the slowest turn on the track, perhaps the slowest on the calendar, so down-force there is probably the lowest an F1 car will ever experience. Might even be zero. The outside front tyre should handle that without breaking a sweat. I think the interesting thing about it, is that it shows RedBull has something different going on to the other cars on their front suspension.

I think it is more in the rear suspension. I’m not certain whether they are running a rear ARB, but if they are it looks as though they are able to decouple it at VERY low speeds (probably a Monaco only solution); the front is lifting because it has reached maximum droop, while the rear is falling over (almost as though the OSR suspension has collapsed).
Of course, Perez might have had a major rear suspension issue!!!

[PlatinumZealot]

The rear would have to be stiff if its the rear suspnsion indicating a tight ARB.
You're could be the rear.

The front ARB could also have high stiffness too in that the inside wont drop.

Hard to know which one without deeper analysis.

[PhillipM]

Nah, the rear would be soft and the front would be setup with a stiff arb, that would contribute to lifting the front.But we already know the rear of the RB is a bit softer than most with it squatting so much from high ride heights.

[PlatinumZealot]

Nah, the rear would be soft and the front would be setup with a stiff arb, that would contribute to lifting the front.But we already know the rear of the RB is a bit softer than most with it squatting so much from high ride heights.

Yes this is what I meant. But the typing came out very wrong! (on mobile).

[thisisatest]

Historically, f1 cars have had lots more travel in their rear suspension than their front. I suspect it's still the case.
With the descending sharp corner, the road for the left front wheel is lower, so it's natural for the car to three wheel there. You'll see it on hill climb cars going the other way, their inside rear wheel in the air despite the car accelerating (mostly the AWD ones).
The fact that the rear end is soft in heave relative to the front has no real bearing on the roll stiffness difference, as heave and roll stiffness can be tuned independently with their third element.

[godlameroso]

Historically, f1 cars have had lots more travel in their rear suspension than their front. I suspect it's still the case.
With the descending sharp corner, the road for the left front wheel is lower, so it's natural for the car to three wheel there. You'll see it on hill climb cars going the other way, their inside rear wheel in the air despite the car accelerating (mostly the AWD ones).
The fact that the rear end is soft in heave relative to the front has no real bearing on the roll stiffness difference, as heave and roll stiffness can be tuned independently with their third element.

If the rear is soft in heave doesn't that lend itself to using the brakes for weight transfer and getting the nose closer to the ground?

[thisisatest]

If the rear is soft in heave doesn't that lend itself to using the brakes for weight transfer and getting the nose closer to the ground?

The wing yes, but the front suspension will compress as much as it will based on the forces. The rear suspension extending will affect the front suspension almost zero.