2021 Mclaren F1 Team

[djos]

The hole in your theory is that Carlos and Lando never said the handling was poor, and neither does Daniel. Daniel actually says the car feels normal, but he is unable to replicate what Lando does with it. This is not a problem with the car, it is a problem with the driving style that Daniel is used to.

It's a Braking feel issue:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-r ... n/6505513/

"Braking is quite a big hitter in lap time, and Dan's always been a very, very strong braker," McLaren technical director James Key explains. "We've seen some of his overtakes in the past, and he's done it being very late on the anchors, and getting the pass.

"So it's definitely a strength of his. I think changing to a different car, you've always got to adapt a bit to the way that car feels under braking.

"I think there's lots of different aspects. The braking system itself often isn't the major factor here. We all use very similar material, very similar systems, and so on.

"So in terms of the pedal feel, to a certain extent, there's a bit of variability there. But certainly the bite and the braking performance itself is often very similar.

"I think where differences come in are things like engine braking, and how that works, and how to tune it accordingly.

"How the chassis works, how the aerodynamics work and support the car in certain conditions, is it strong in a straight line, which is what we've always been, or a little bit weaker if you're trying to carry the brakes into a corner, or certain types of corner where you have different kind of braking conditions. That's where you really get the differences creeping up."

[BMMR61]

Once Baku is over, six races of the MCL35M, we will be in a position to evaluate overall progress, Daniel’s issues notwithstanding. Already it appears we have made very significant progress relative to all teams bar Ferrari. The talk 3 months ago was over how McLaren would be hindered by using all it’s “tokens” with installation of the new Mercedes PU. Fair to say McLaren haven’t been disadvantaged and in fact been able to incorporate other improvements while adapting the 2020 car to take the new unit. I’m not sure how Ferrari turned the dog of a 2020 car into a quite handy unit with the same number of tokens to spend as its competitors. Let’s assume much is down to development of the power unit and maximising available power to generate the best level of downforce. If McLaren are able to continue putting effort into developing the M and are able to build a good gap to Ferrari then Ferrari will probably genuinely decide to transfer its engineering to the 2022 car. Will McLaren still develop the M if they continue to have the gap from pole under 0.5? Will pressure or incentive come from behind or ahead? I doubt that McLaren expected to be as close as Lando was at Monaco.

[PlatinumZealot]

They will be pressured more from behind. Alpine is coming better. Ferrari has found something. Alpha Tauri has found something.

[Emag]

The hole in your theory is that Carlos and Lando never said the handling was poor, and neither does Daniel. Daniel actually says the car feels normal, but he is unable to replicate what Lando does with it. This is not a problem with the car, it is a problem with the driving style that Daniel is used to.

Carlos presumably told Daniel "wierd, isn't it?" when refering to the car. Daniel mentioned this on an interview this weekend. That's what got me thinking.

[Chicane]

The level of precision needed with respect to brakes and throttle in slow corners is relatively much higher in MCL35 in comparison to the other cars Ricciardo has driven in the past.

One just has to listen to Ricciardo's team radio to understand what he is suffering from and what Lando is doing.

MCL35 suffered from mid-corner understeer in medium speed corners. This quality appears to have carried over to the MCL35M with McLaren having to run an unchanged front end mechanically due to token restrictions. Braking slightly earlier, carrying slightly less entry speed and prioritising exit is what Lando adopts in medium speed corners. You can hear Tom Stallard telling Ricciardo in Barcelona practice that he was braking later, riding the brake a bit too deep and inducing understeer on exit.

In Monaco Stallard informs Ricciardo about the approach Lando is adopting for slow corners. He says Lando is braking later, carrying light brake pressure up to the apex which is helping him with better rotation. The level of precision needed appears to be very high especially in slow corners. Ricciardo is still trying to feel his way. I think he needs time to get himself adopted to the intricacies of the car.

Lando is in sync with the car, has complete understanding of the braking setup and trusts the rear of the car much more. Ricciardo was in the simulator so he must have tried out a few setups and practiced certain techniques to fast track his acclimatizion.

[PlatinumZealot]

The level of precision needed with respect to brakes and throttle in slow corners is relatively much higher in MCL35 in comparison to the other cars Ricciardo has driven in the past.

One just has to listen to Ricciardo's team radio to understand what he is suffering from and what Lando is doing.

MCL35 suffered from mid-corner understeer in medium speed corners. This quality appears to have carried over to the MCL35M with McLaren having to run an unchanged front end mechanically due to token restrictions.

Very bold claim. Not saying it is incorrect. But it is bold when F1 suspension is extremely adjustable and when understeer/oversteer andis feel is greatly dependent on aero-balance!

Braking slightly earlier, carrying slightly less entry speed and prioritising exit is what Lando adopts in medium speed corners. You can hear Tom Stallard telling Ricciardo in Barcelona practice that he was braking later, riding the brake a bit too deep and inducing understeer on exit.

In Monaco Stallard informs Ricciardo about the approach Lando is adopting for slow corners. He says Lando is braking later, carrying light brake pressure up to the apex which is helping him with better rotation. The level of precision needed appears to be very high especially in slow corners. Ricciardo is still trying to feel his way. I think he needs time to get himself adopted to the intricacies of the car.

Lando is in sync with the car, has complete understanding of the braking setup and trusts the rear of the car much more. Ricciardo was in the simulator so he must have tried out a few setups and practiced certain techniques to fast track his acclimatizion.

On this second point in bold, notice that only a few races ago, Daniel was told thw opposite. He was told that he was braking too late! (I cannot remember if Portugal or Imola). So really it's not that the steering/braking are an unchangeable characteristics; they are changing track to track and Lando is adjusting to them by instinct. Whether it is through experience with the chassis or the way the car works the tires or better relationship with his engineer, Lando is adjusting better with the car.

Daniel has been known in the past to overdrive to make up for deficiencies, we saw at times when Ocon was starting to ctach up to him in the late races last year, but the good thing with Daniel is that he is a learner. Against all logic I sort of wrote it off that Lando would be smashed by Daniel... My was I surpised. Lol. But yeah, want to sew these two fighting closer in Q and on track so I hope he turns it over soon.

[SmallSoldier]

Once Baku is over, six races of the MCL35M, we will be in a position to evaluate overall progress, Daniel’s issues notwithstanding. Already it appears we have made very significant progress relative to all teams bar Ferrari. The talk 3 months ago was over how McLaren would be hindered by using all it’s “tokens” with installation of the new Mercedes PU. Fair to say McLaren haven’t been disadvantaged and in fact been able to incorporate other improvements while adapting the 2020 car to take the new unit. I’m not sure how Ferrari turned the dog of a 2020 car into a quite handy unit with the same number of tokens to spend as its competitors. Let’s assume much is down to development of the power unit and maximising available power to generate the best level of downforce. If McLaren are able to continue putting effort into developing the M and are able to build a good gap to Ferrari then Ferrari will probably genuinely decide to transfer its engineering to the 2022 car. Will McLaren still develop the M if they continue to have the gap from pole under 0.5? Will pressure or incentive come from behind or ahead? I doubt that McLaren expected to be as close as Lando was at Monaco.

Every time Seidl has been asked about it, he has stated that they have plan and intend to stick to it, so I don’t think the MCL35M will be developed passed certain point... At the same time Seidl also stated that they wouldn’t invest resources unless a potential gain was worth a good amount of time, if they would find something that could give them several tenths, they would pursue it.

I think the gap to the front may be just too big as showed by the delta to the front runners at the end of the first races and it’s not a matter of a couple of tenths in race pace, so I’m hoping that they do enough to fight for P3 and move onto 2022... A good start to 2022 could yield several years of happiness


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[BMMR61]

I agree that the likely scenario is McLaren will cease development of new aero and other allowable components at some point, but how late will that be will be determined by how much they are still in the battle with Ferrari. How much does 3rd v 4th mean to management who make these decisions? Quite a bit I would think especially insofar as it’s “the old foe”. Seidl’s comments at the time I felt left the door open to this battle potentially going to the middle of the season (battle in this case being deployment of resources). I have watched the gap to the front closely since early in 2019 and so far in 2021 it is hovering around 0.6 plus or minus 0.3 and Monaco looked like a breakthrough. Cause to be pleased with progress isn’t just the <0.3 at Monaco and other excellent qualifying results but the apparent solving of the low speed corner deficit. This addressed the last of the main issues that the team faced at the end of last year, the others being in no particular order, pitstops, reliability and closeness of the rest of the midfield affecting the Q2 tyre choice. Ferrari being a close rival is in this situation driving McLaren forward overall even if they end up losing that fight narrowly, which I don’t think will happen.

[godlameroso]

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/05/25/no ... han-sainz/

Lando Norris has suggested that Daniel Ricciardo is a less adaptable driver than Carlos Sainz.

Norris’ comments come five races into his relationship with Ricciardo, who joined McLaren at the start of 2021.

The seven-time Formula 1 grand prix winner succeeded Sainz at the Woking-based squad as the Spaniard headed to Ferrari to replace Sebastian Vettel.

Having now had time to work alongside Ricciardo, Norris has shed some light on how the Australian differs from his former stablemate.

“I think their driving styles are quite different, or very different, I would say,” the 21-year-old explained.

“There’s a lot of differences between them both.

“Daniel, from what I’ve seen so far, he wants a car that really suits him maybe a little bit more.

“Carlos was good at driving a car which wasn’t always that nice to drive, and he was very good at that.

“Daniel’s very, very fast when he has the car around him and when everything’s suited,” he added.

“But as soon as there’s a couple of problems, I think just as most drivers do, as soon as you lose that bit of confidence, then you just struggle a little bit more.

“I don’t think that’s just with him, that’s just something that some drivers have more than others – it is a confidence thing.”

Ricciardo played second fiddle to Norris in the opening three races of the season before besting him at the Spanish Grand Prix.

However, the early season trend returned last weekend in Monaco, with the Australian comprehensively overshadowed by his young team-mate.

The 2018 race winner finished a lap down in 12th having failed to progress from Qualifying 2, while Norris scored his second podium of the season.

Sainz was also on the podium, having demonstrated impressive pace around the Monaco streets.

Of those who changed teams in the off-season, the 26-year-old has proved the standout, matching his established Ferrari team-mate Charles Leclerc.

That’s reflected in the drivers’ championship, too, with Sainz having scored 38 points to Ricciardo’s 24.

By contrast, Leclerc has scored only two more than his new stablemate, while Norris has amassed 56 to sit third in the title fight after five events.

The Formula 1 season continues with the Azerbaijan Grand Prix, a race Ricciardo won in 2017 with Red Bull, on June 4-6.

Read between the lines, what is different and Norris has more experience with? The aero of the car is affected by how it pitches forward and backwards and how the car rolls. Norris knows how much to trail brake to keep the front wing working on turn in, he knows how hard he has to stab the throttle to get the rear end to squat without spinning the tires. Just like birds aren't born knowing how to fly, they need to learn, so too can humans learn to ride the wind of an F1 car.

That's why Riccardo has to serenade the car(wing beneath my wings), to form that emotional bond that will help him fly, but upside down.

Australians risk their life to the ocean and wild life to surf on a board, the car is easy by comparison.

[SmallSoldier]

I agree that the likely scenario is McLaren will cease development of new aero and other allowable components at some point, but how late will that be will be determined by how much they are still in the battle with Ferrari. How much does 3rd v 4th mean to management who make these decisions? Quite a bit I would think especially insofar as it’s “the old foe”. Seidl’s comments at the time I felt left the door open to this battle potentially going to the middle of the season (battle in this case being deployment of resources). I have watched the gap to the front closely since early in 2019 and so far in 2021 it is hovering around 0.6 plus or minus 0.3 and Monaco looked like a breakthrough. Cause to be pleased with progress isn’t just the <0.3 at Monaco and other excellent qualifying results but the apparent solving of the low speed corner deficit. This addressed the last of the main issues that the team faced at the end of last year, the others being in no particular order, pitstops, reliability and closeness of the rest of the midfield affecting the Q2 tyre choice. Ferrari being a close rival is in this situation driving McLaren forward overall even if they end up losing that fight narrowly, which I don’t think will happen.

I don’t think that the nostalgia of a battle with Ferrari is what will determine if they continue development passed their original plan... Whether 3rd (and the prize money that comes with it) is enough motivation to delay full focus on ‘22 it’s something that they only know

Time will tell, but I don’t think Ferrari will continue development deep into the season, for teams like Ferrari and Mclaren, if the goal is to get back to winning races / championships, hindering that in an effort to finish 2021 3rd would go against those long term plans.


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[djos]

Australians risk their life to the ocean and wild life to surf on a board, the car is easy by comparison.

And don't forget our drop-bears, they are even more dangerous than swooping Magpies!

[Chicane]

On this second point in bold, notice that only a few races ago, Daniel was told thw opposite. He was told that he was braking too late! (I cannot remember if Portugal or Imola). So really it's not that the steering/braking are an unchangeable characteristics; they are changing track to track and Lando is adjusting to them by instinct. Whether it is through experience with the chassis or the way the car works the tires or better relationship with his engineer, Lando is adjusting better with the car.

I agree with you on this. Lando is instinctively, subconsciously and naturally able to make all those adjustments needed in his driving technique around various types of corners. As you say he is not going by a preset template. He is able to apply different methods/styles/techniques across the lap around different types of corners seamlessly.

Ricciardo will get there. As you know braking is highly complicated in these cars where the brakes are not just used to stop the car but to harvest energy as well with the aid of MGU-K. Then there is the engine braking. He is one driver who needs to completely understand every single trait of the braking system to get everything out of the car. I feel once he figures out the brakes he will be up there with Lando. Another point i feel is that he still does not know where the limit lies in slow corners and hence very tentative and ginger with turn in and throttle application. I feel he just needs time to put all the pieces of the puzzle together.

[Kantzila]

There's a lot of talk about Ferrari and their new simulation in my twitter feed lately (i.e., see @GiulyDuchessa). I was wondering if we have any news regarding the plans to debut an all-new third-gen simulation. We heard the story back in December 2019, but I haven’t read anything about the project this year. Given how important it seems to be for Ferrari, is there any change that the proposed simulation upgrade was put on hold?

[the EDGE]

There's a lot of talk about Ferrari and their new simulation in my twitter feed lately (i.e., see @GiulyDuchessa). I was wondering if we have any news regarding the plans to debut an all-new third-gen simulation. We heard the story back in December 2019, but I haven’t read anything about the project this year. Given how important it seems to be for Ferrari, is there any change that the proposed simulation upgrade was put on hold?

As far as I am aware a new SIM is still on McLaren's agenda as part of its infrastructure resource upgrade, along with the wind tunnel & CFD facilities

Everything was held up by Covid, and the nock-on financial loss, but my understanding is they have found the capital required and works have restarted, so now it’s just a matter of time

[adrianjordan]

I agree that the likely scenario is McLaren will cease development of new aero and other allowable components at some point, but how late will that be will be determined by how much they are still in the battle with Ferrari. How much does 3rd v 4th mean to management who make these decisions? Quite a bit I would think especially insofar as it’s “the old foe”. Seidl’s comments at the time I felt left the door open to this battle potentially going to the middle of the season (battle in this case being deployment of resources). I have watched the gap to the front closely since early in 2019 and so far in 2021 it is hovering around 0.6 plus or minus 0.3 and Monaco looked like a breakthrough. Cause to be pleased with progress isn’t just the <0.3 at Monaco and other excellent qualifying results but the apparent solving of the low speed corner deficit. This addressed the last of the main issues that the team faced at the end of last year, the others being in no particular order, pitstops, reliability and closeness of the rest of the midfield affecting the Q2 tyre choice. Ferrari being a close rival is in this situation driving McLaren forward overall even if they end up losing that fight narrowly, which I don’t think will happen.

I don’t think that the nostalgia of a battle with Ferrari is what will determine if they continue development passed their original plan... Whether 3rd (and the prize money that comes with it) is enough motivation to delay full focus on ‘22 it’s something that they only know

Time will tell, but I don’t think Ferrari will continue development deep into the season, for teams like Ferrari and Mclaren, if the goal is to get back to winning races / championships, hindering that in an effort to finish 2021 3rd would go against those long term plans.


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Let's not forget that, if they can swallow the difference in prize money, there's an advantage to finishing 4th in that it then gives them more CFD and Wind tunnel time next season, which could be useful with developing the new car...