Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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bmw fanatic
bmw fanatic
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Joined: 16 Mar 2009, 21:21

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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donskar wrote:bmw fanatic wrote
motive: publicity stunt to boost rep and attarct sponsors. rumours are that they are close to closing a deal rather than persueing a new one (no one can know how close or far away from a sponsorship deal they are exactly.)
Highly unlikely. I have a little experience here, having been a member of the Compaq team that negotiated the Williams sponsorship. Those negotiations took much longer than Brawn and his partners have owned the team. And no reputable sponsor would start negotiating with a group that did NOT own the team wanting sponsorship. In addition, the economic climate now is MUCH worse than when we negotiated the Williams sponsorship (we were spending money like drunken sailors). I hope I'm wrong; I want to see Brawn succeed. But remember, if Brawn can not back up its test times in the real races, they will repel future sponsors.
evidence: renault have hinted that they ran with little or no ballast and in the closing stages of todays testing renault beat their time presumably by running equally light to understand their true pace.
No offense meant, but "hinted" and "presumably" do not constitute "evidence."
i assume u have a better explanation for renaults 11th hour pace. do u think they achieved it with a legal car if not then why bother?

true there is no real evidence of much at this point however an intelligent guess can be made from their activities. if u want to dismiss something than debate your case rather than blindly dissmissing somethin without real cosideration. and are u categorically stating that brawn gp will not have a sponsor in the very near future giving them a good reason to impress??

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spaman
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 11:38

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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What I don´t get is, is this discussion on BrawnGP. I think the car isn´t as superior as Brawn wants us to believe. On the other hand it will most probabyl not be just an midfield competitor.

By now going really fast, everone looks at his Team and talk about it. In case the car is good - on one level with BMW, Renault, Ferrari he'll probably even be able to qualify in the first row (with a little less fuel). So even if he finishes 4th to 8 th it will still be a good result and media will talk about it. No one would be disappointed if he wouldn't win a race and most everyone would understand his approach. So - it´s not all white or black but let´s say light gray.

CMSMJ1
CMSMJ1
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Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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how many times do we have to repeat that Ross Brawn stated that they have the money in place for this season.. They do not need a sponsor. If they are fast then the results this year will be all they need to bag a deal.

Sheesh.. #-o

As for a pecking order (On topic! :wtf: )

Race results:

Massa
Trulli
Button
Kubica
Heidfeld
Raikkonen
Webber
Vettel
Barrichello
Bourdais
Sutil
Hamilton

DNF
Piquet - crash
Alonso - Engine
Fisi - Crash
kovy - crash
Rosberg - 1st lap
Nakajima - 1st lap
Glock - 1st corner
Buemi - 1st corner
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

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spaman
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 11:38

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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For someone using this #-o your post is pretty #-o

Of course BRawn wouldn't tell if they had a financial problem - bad PR. No one would risk investing money if he didn´t knew that he would get a good ROI.

Bad ROI would be:

1. No competetive car
2. Not enough money to run the team for the entire season

Is really someone trying to tell me, that BRawnGP wouldn´t want to have some sponsors on their car for the season - get some MORE money in CASE they already have got enough - this really is ridiculous and #-o

Only thing I said is. They might be good, at the same level as the best - but they won´t be predominant. [-X

Kester
Kester
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Joined: 11 Aug 2008, 17:26

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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The way I see it is they are setting quick times at the beginning of long stints. Times that are quicker than most teams fastest times of the day, so even if they are low on weight their fuel loads would counteract a lot of that.

CMSMJ1
CMSMJ1
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Joined: 25 Sep 2007, 10:51
Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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spaman wrote:For someone using this #-o your post is pretty #-o

Of course BRawn wouldn't tell if they had a financial problem - bad PR. No one would risk investing money if he didn´t knew that he would get a good ROI.

Bad ROI would be:

1. No competetive car
2. Not enough money to run the team for the entire season

Is really someone trying to tell me, that BRawnGP wouldn´t want to have some sponsors on their car for the season - get some MORE money in CASE they already have got enough - this really is ridiculous and #-o

Only thing I said is. They might be good, at the same level as the best - but they won´t be predominant. [-X
#-o - the best smily on here..

I agree that they want some more money...who doesn't?

The insistence of low fuel/no ballast/illegal car is what is making me #-o

The car is better than anyone expected. Let's hope it is reliable.

Either way come the middle of the season I would imagine the teams with the cash to carry on development will take the lead.

:mrgreen:

Anyways...hows about a prediction for pecking order in Melbourne??
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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Underweighted or not, The Brawn GP car is still good. It has pace and if you add 50Kg the times wont go up more than 0.5 - 0.8 secs. With that they could still be up in the grid.

The thing is Honda started to develop the 2009 car in december 2007 while other teams started in may 2008. Brawn was involved in the whole process, with a driver who knew how to do that with him since the Ferrari times, plus good knowledge of Bridgestones tyres.

I predict Brawn up in the pecking order at Melbourne, but maybe descending through the year while other top teams catch up.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

axle
axle
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Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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My predictions now that we're pretty much done with testing...this is assuming no reliability issues.

Averaged team placings...
Qualifying
Brawn
Williams
Ferrari
Toyota
BMW
McLaren
Renault
Redbull
STR
FIF1


Race Results
Brawn
Ferrari
Toyota
Williams
BMW
McLaren
Renault
Redbull
STR
FIF1
- Axle

Clubber
Clubber
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Joined: 05 Mar 2009, 11:14

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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interesting analysis of the testing results so far by Autosport
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73781

If that's right then it really could be an interesting season - Brawn to start with a big advantage but then presumably with a lower budget, will probably gradually lose that relative to the opposition through the season.

Of course, with the 'winner takes all' new rules, it could be that we've got a situation where Button or Barrichello are way out front at mid season, effectively tying it all up - or they're almost uncatchable but can't get any more wins...

Really can't wait :) =D>

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Moanlower
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Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 17:57
Location: Belgium

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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Lets wait and see how much of this will stand after Melbourne.
Last edited by Moanlower on 19 Mar 2009, 17:15, edited 1 time in total.
Losers focus on winners, winners focus on winning.

myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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Interesting. As this is with older data when McLaren were clearly in the middle of their problems I do suspect that they're closer to the front than that. If they are about 1 second faster, as it seems they have been, then that brings them up to the estimated pace of the Ferrari's.

That said I expect the Ferrari to be a little bit faster than has been shown, mixing it with the Toyota and BMW, and I also expect the Williams to be a bit higher up than their listing.

Shall be interesting to see.

axle
axle
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Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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myurr wrote:Interesting. As this is with older data when McLaren were clearly in the middle of their problems I do suspect that they're closer to the front than that. If they are about 1 second faster, as it seems they have been, then that brings them up to the estimated pace of the Ferrari's.

That said I expect the Ferrari to be a little bit faster than has been shown, mixing it with the Toyota and BMW, and I also expect the Williams to be a bit higher up than their listing.

Shall be interesting to see.
Based on today's times with Kazuki we could just see a Williams snatch the pole...stranger things have happened.
- Axle

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jon-mullen
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Joined: 10 Sep 2008, 02:56
Location: Big Blue Nation

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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I know Brawn's been good, but bodoglife.com has Button in at 4/1 !! Here's THEIR pecking order:

Australian GP:
Jenson Button 4/1
Kimi Raikkonen 9/2
Lewis Hamilton 6/1
Fernando Alonso 6/1
Felipe Massa 13/2
Rubens Barrichello 13/2
Robert Kubica 10/1
Nick Heidfeld 20/1
Sebastien Vettel 20/1
Timo Glock 33/1
Heikki Kovalainen 33/1
Jarno Trulli 40/1
Mark Webber 50/1
Nico Rosberg 50/1
Nelsinho Piquet Jr.100/1
Kazuki Nakajima 200/1
Sebastien Bourdais 200/1
Sebastien Buemi 200/1
Adrian Sutil 200/1
Giancarlo Fisichella 300/1

And their picture for the WDC:

Lewis Hamilton 7/2
Kimi Raikkonen 7/2
Felipe Massa 4/1
Fernando Alonso 9/2
Jenson Button 8/1
Robert Kubica 8/1

puts Button below more likely champions. I don't envy bookmakers this year: last minute rule changes, last minute cars, new regs... #-o

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Loud idiot in red since 2010
United States Grand Prix Club, because there's more to racing than NASCAR

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Germanengineering
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Joined: 17 Feb 2009, 20:44
Location: USA

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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1. BMW Sauber
2. McLaren
3. Ferrari
4. Toyota
5. Red Bull
6. Williams
7. Renault
8. Toro Rosso
9. Brawn
10.Force India
People don't understand that it was maybe my biggest pleasure to drive an F1 car when it's wet. - Alain Prost

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hulmerist
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Joined: 12 Feb 2009, 20:59

Re: Prediction Pecking Order at Melbourne.

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massa
hamilton
kimi
button
kubica
heidfeld
rosberg
heikki
rubens
alonso
vettel
webber
trulli
glock
bourdais
nakajima
piquet
buemi
sutil
fisi