Red Bull RB16B

[Just_a_fan]

If the rear is soft in heave doesn't that lend itself to using the brakes for weight transfer and getting the nose closer to the ground?

The wing yes, but the front suspension will compress as much as it will based on the forces. The rear suspension extending will affect the front suspension almost zero.

And the front wing is 1/2 to 1/3 of the wheel base, the rear lifting doesn't affect the front wing lowering as much as might be thought. If the rear raises by 30mm, the front wing will lower by 10-15mm which, as a percentage of the front wing chord, is quite small. Front wing ground effect downforce increasing as h/c decreases in a non linear fashion, but not excessively so until h is quite small.

[godlameroso]

If the rear is soft in heave doesn't that lend itself to using the brakes for weight transfer and getting the nose closer to the ground?

The wing yes, but the front suspension will compress as much as it will based on the forces. The rear suspension extending will affect the front suspension almost zero.

And the front wing is 1/2 to 1/3 of the wheel base, the rear lifting doesn't affect the front wing lowering as much as might be thought. If the rear raises by 30mm, the front wing will lower by 10-15mm which, as a percentage of the front wing chord, is quite small. Front wing ground effect downforce increasing as h/c decreases in a non linear fashion, but not excessively so until h is quite small.

10-15mm is a lot when you consider what 2mm can do.

[Just_a_fan]

The wing yes, but the front suspension will compress as much as it will based on the forces. The rear suspension extending will affect the front suspension almost zero.

And the front wing is 1/2 to 1/3 of the wheel base, the rear lifting doesn't affect the front wing lowering as much as might be thought. If the rear raises by 30mm, the front wing will lower by 10-15mm which, as a percentage of the front wing chord, is quite small. Front wing ground effect downforce increasing as h/c decreases in a non linear fashion, but not excessively so until h is quite small.

10-15mm is a lot when you consider what 2mm can do.

It depends where you are on the graph. 2mm at h/c = 0.8 is possibly minimal, 2mm at h/c = 0.2 might be significant. At h/c = 0.09 it might be bad.

[marcush]

add roll , with digonal weight transfer and tyre squash and you end up with significantly close endplate to the ground at least on one side of the car .
And dont forget its not just the car rotating around the front axle , the front is diving under braking and weight transfer too, and any change of downforce at the front due tochange of
AoA or ground effects will alter front rideheights ,either through compressing the tyresidewalls or front suspension .The Redbull one of the cars scraping the front edge of the plank very much....

[godlameroso]

And the front wing is 1/2 to 1/3 of the wheel base, the rear lifting doesn't affect the front wing lowering as much as might be thought. If the rear raises by 30mm, the front wing will lower by 10-15mm which, as a percentage of the front wing chord, is quite small. Front wing ground effect downforce increasing as h/c decreases in a non linear fashion, but not excessively so until h is quite small.

10-15mm is a lot when you consider what 2mm can do.

It depends where you are on the graph. 2mm at h/c = 0.8 is possibly minimal, 2mm at h/c = 0.2 might be significant. At h/c = 0.09 it might be bad.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jo ... 3_Q320.jpg

And 10mm? Those pesky 10mm am i rite?

[Just_a_fan]

10-15mm is a lot when you consider what 2mm can do.

It depends where you are on the graph. 2mm at h/c = 0.8 is possibly minimal, 2mm at h/c = 0.2 might be significant. At h/c = 0.09 it might be bad.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jo ... 3_Q320.jpg

And 10mm? Those pesky 10mm am i rite?

As I said, it depends where you are on the graph.

[godlameroso]

It depends where you are on the graph. 2mm at h/c = 0.8 is possibly minimal, 2mm at h/c = 0.2 might be significant. At h/c = 0.09 it might be bad.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jo ... 3_Q320.jpg

And 10mm? Those pesky 10mm am i rite?

As I said, it depends where you are on the graph.

Ever wonder how those walls factor into all this, like in Monaco, getting close to the wall makes you fast in Baku. With the amount of outwash these cars generate, some has to get squeezed between the car and the wall.

Would be funny if teams who have smaller wind tunnels and suffer from wall effects made cars that work well on tracks with more walls.

[Just_a_fan]

And 10mm? Those pesky 10mm am i rite?

As I said, it depends where you are on the graph.

Ever wonder how those walls factor into all this, like in Monaco, getting close to the wall makes you fast in Baku. With the amount of outwash these cars generate, some has to get squeezed between the car and the wall.

Would be funny if teams who have smaller wind tunnels and suffer from wall effects made cars that work well on tracks with more walls.

Getting close to the walls to be fast isn't an aerodynamic effect, it's making the track as wide as possible and thus being able to carry more speed though the apex.

[godlameroso]

As I said, it depends where you are on the graph.

Ever wonder how those walls factor into all this, like in Monaco, getting close to the wall makes you fast in Baku. With the amount of outwash these cars generate, some has to get squeezed between the car and the wall.

Would be funny if teams who have smaller wind tunnels and suffer from wall effects made cars that work well on tracks with more walls.

Getting close to the walls to be fast isn't an aerodynamic effect, it's making the track as wide as possible and thus being able to carry more speed though the apex.

What I mean is what effect does getting close to the wall have on the aero of the car itself. If ground effect works better the closer you get to the ground(to a point), out wash will work harder the closer you get to the wall(to a point)?

[trinidefender]

Ever wonder how those walls factor into all this, like in Monaco, getting close to the wall makes you fast in Baku. With the amount of outwash these cars generate, some has to get squeezed between the car and the wall.

Would be funny if teams who have smaller wind tunnels and suffer from wall effects made cars that work well on tracks with more walls.

Getting close to the walls to be fast isn't an aerodynamic effect, it's making the track as wide as possible and thus being able to carry more speed though the apex.

What I mean is what effect does getting close to the wall have on the aero of the car itself. If ground effect works better the closer you get to the ground(to a point), out wash will work harder the closer you get to the wall(to a point)?

No it won't. They are different effects. The point of the outwash is to move the dirty air (front tyre wake) away from the car to the side. If you move a car close to a wall then that air has nowhere to go so you'll probably start to lose downforce as it means the dirty air will be forced to interact with the floor and other elements further down the car.

That's why drivers say they lose so much performance when driving next to other cars and one of the things making overtaking harder. The simplified front wings for 2019 was an effort to partially fix this.

[Just_a_fan]

Getting close to the walls to be fast isn't an aerodynamic effect, it's making the track as wide as possible and thus being able to carry more speed though the apex.

What I mean is what effect does getting close to the wall have on the aero of the car itself. If ground effect works better the closer you get to the ground(to a point), out wash will work harder the closer you get to the wall(to a point)?

No it won't. They are different effects. The point of the outwash is to move the dirty air (front tyre wake) away from the car to the side. If you move a car close to a wall then that air has nowhere to go so you'll probably start to lose downforce as it means the dirty air will be forced to interact with the floor and other elements further down the car.

That's why drivers say they lose so much performance when driving next to other cars and one of the things making overtaking harder. The simplified front wings for 2019 was an effort to partially fix this.

This.^

[godlameroso]

Getting close to the walls to be fast isn't an aerodynamic effect, it's making the track as wide as possible and thus being able to carry more speed though the apex.

What I mean is what effect does getting close to the wall have on the aero of the car itself. If ground effect works better the closer you get to the ground(to a point), out wash will work harder the closer you get to the wall(to a point)?

No it won't. They are different effects. The point of the outwash is to move the dirty air (front tyre wake) away from the car to the side. If you move a car close to a wall then that air has nowhere to go so you'll probably start to lose downforce as it means the dirty air will be forced to interact with the floor and other elements further down the car.

That's why drivers say they lose so much performance when driving next to other cars and one of the things making overtaking harder. The simplified front wings for 2019 was an effort to partially fix this.

How are they different, if you a confine a non compressible fluid it speeds up to a point. Aero works regardless of your orientation, in 3d space.

Furthermore cars lose downforce driving behind, not next to cars. 2019 rules just ended up costing teams money. They failed in their objective pretty spectacularly, and I would feel shame using that as an example of a well thought out rule change.

[aral]

Could you please continue this aero discussion on the aero thread , so as to keep this thread on topic. Any further such discussion will be moved or deleted. Thanks

viewforum.php?f=6

[lio007]

Nice view on their Z-shaped floor:

[Just_a_fan]

I wonder what the pod is that's supported from the rear tyre gantry and sits directly above the centre of the car. Anyone have any ideas.