Safety cars unsuitable for F1

[hiccup]

Before the season starts, something that puzzles me is the choice of vehicle chosen by the FIA for the safety car.

In my opinion the likes of the AMG Merc this has always seemed inappropiate, and frustrating for the top drivers to be stuck behind a fat executives barge mobile.

Why can the FIA not get a F1 technology derived vehicle adapted to suit the needs, speed, luggage/equipment carrying , cornering ability.

Plus if such a vehicle was not constrained by the rules of the racing cars, then perhaps with wide tyres, wings, traction control etc, we could have something that would allow teams to maintain tyre temperature.

If you recall the Belgium gp, when the Ferrari tyres were almost coming of the rims due to several incidents, and the michelin teams played this tactical card to its fullest.

[sid]

Before the season starts, something that puzzles me is the choice of vehicle chosen by the FIA for the safety car.

In my opinion the likes of the AMG Merc this has always seemed inappropiate, and frustrating for the top drivers to be stuck behind a fat executives barge mobile.

Why can the FIA not get a F1 technology derived vehicle adapted to suit the needs, speed, luggage/equipment carrying , cornering ability.

Plus if such a vehicle was not constrained by the rules of the racing cars, then perhaps with wide tyres, wings, traction control etc, we could have something that would allow teams to maintain tyre temperature.

If you recall the Belgium gp, when the Ferrari tyres were almost coming of the rims due to several incidents, and the michelin teams played this tactical card to its fullest.

good point, who appoints these cars anyway?
while we are on this topic what car do you recommend they use ?

[Micky]

How about a Bugatti Veyron.

See if it can beat an F1 car down the pit straight!!!

[Mclaren11]

I don't think that it would really help to chane the car type, a while ago when they introduced the safetycars they were porsches (911's maybe?) and the sape problem occured. so short of a mclaren f1 or an enzo i dont think that any car will work much better than the Merc's

[Monstrobolaxa]

It's called a Safety car for a reason the idea is to reduce the speeds on purpose in order that the marshalls safety, medical teams, emergency teams that are working in the event of an accident, track obstruction, etc are "protected" from the high speeds. In any case the problem really isn't really the speeds the cars are travelling at...cause in a straight line the tires don't really heat up...they'll heat up in corners or turning from side to side....so the problem really isn't the safety cars speed.

It's more the ability to corner fast enough....if you used the exact same car dynamics of a determined car in any other car (when I mention the car dynamics I mean suspension wise, same CofG, weight, same tires etc - though the track and wheel base might vary it is possible to get the suspension envelop to be the same in any car....it's all down to research)....you'll see that all of those cars would corner at the same speed.

The AMG safety car has been modified to "run" infront of the F1 field....the engine has extra Hp, it's track is 10 cm wider then the road car...it is 5cm lower then the road car...and it's lighter. It's more or less purposly built. Probably the suspension has also been "refurbished"!

So it isn't really a question of speed....the track workers also need to be safe while helping someone or cleaning the track....having a faster car on the straights won't really held heating up the tires....and if the cornering performance of all the cars are more or less the same...there really isn't a point in having a very fast car that will only be fast on straights....and will slow down for the corners.

[Guest]

Not only does it provide a safe environment for the marshalls but it also provides a great spectacle to see who manages to keep their tyres at the best temp but also who takes advantage after the pace car leaves the track. I remember some great moves from monty and schuey at the return to full speed.

[crystalclear]

Safety car is a misnomer.
Danger car - remember what killed Senna? Tyre pressures dropped so much the car was rubbing on the floor, air flow under it was stopped, downforce was lost, and so was Senna. Remember the restart where Heidfeld braked on cold tyres, unintentionally overtook about three cars due to lack of grip, and T-boned Sato. Its not beyond the wit on man to give them an old F1 car as safety car and slowly bring them back towards F1 speeds.

I remember a demonstration where a saloon car set off round some racing circuit. 20 seconds later a Porsche set off. 1 minute 14 seconds later Senna set off. The saloon car appeared round the last bend with the Porsche hot on its tail. Senna was nowhere in site as they started off down the straight towards the finish line. Suddenly he flew round the bend, appearing from nowhere, made them look like they were standing still, and pipped them to the post.

If they cannot drive at a speed that keeps the tyres pressures, brake temperatures etc safe, then they should stop. Whatever these minimum speeds are, the safety car should be capable of them.

Times gaps before the safety car comes out should be considered at the end of a race to determine the winner. I hate it when Montoya has a 10 seconds gap over Schumacher and then it gets lost due to an unrelated accident.

Tyre changes should be allowed. Is this racing or not? This is getting like swimming where they force them to surface within 15m etc. End result, many people can actually swim faster than the world records. F1 teams could actually have got the same car round the track quicker than they did in the race. What we have nowadays is a race to the pits where nobody knows who is winning due to fuel load, followed by a parade to the finish line where you are not simultaneously going to make up a time gap and the speed penalty you have with a slower car - end result zero entertainment value. Even Bo Derek is now old and clothed.

[RacingManiac]

Racing tire will only be at their operating condition at racing speed....and if there are working on the track, racing speed is TOO FAST.....

F1 cars is way faster than any other type of racing car, even if you put an Audi R8 as a safety car they are still 20 sec a lap slower.

[DaveKillens]

There seems to be a misunderstanding. The safety car exists not for the racing cars, but for the accident/ problem on track. The car is called out when there is a dangerous situation on the track, or in an unsafe area. That way, track marshalls and rescue crews can get to the problem and resolve it, without concern for f1 cars racing by at full chat. The safety car does not exist to allow the f1 cars to run around the track at speed that keep the tires warm.
As fas as wishing that the drivers have appropriate and warm tires as they set on the track? NO. Let them deal with cool tires, it's part of racing. As well, there are a lot more serious tire issues to be addressed. For instance, in the FIA rally, the cars could wind up starting a wet section on slicks, due to the rules. Same after F1 qualifying, teams have little option on using rain or intermediate tires until the FIA says it's wet on the track.... to me that's very dangerous. It takes the most important decision maker, the driver, out of the decision for wet tires, and leaves it in an FIA delegate's hands.

[Reca]

Danger car - remember what killed Senna? Tyre pressures dropped so much the car was rubbing on the floor, air flow under it was stopped, downforce was lost, and so was Senna.

There’s a very simple cause for the Senna accident, it’s crystal clear to everybody, there’s plenty of evidence and it has nothing to do with aero.
Then what actually killed Senna was that wishbone that unfortunately hit him right on his head but that was, even if it sounds cynical, just bad luck.

[sharkie17]

This is getting like swimming where they force them to surface within 15m etc. End result, many people can actually swim faster than the world records.

what crack are you smoking?

[Eowyn]

I'm sorry, guys, for reviving an old thread, but this Safety Car thing bugs me for several reasons - none of which relates to tyre temperature, I must confess.

I mean, in the old days there used to be something called a Red Flag. I haven't seen one of those in ages. Maybe I'm just a girl and I don't get these things, but it seems to me that many situations that are now handled with safety cars should have seen red flags instead (Imola94 jumps to mind, but then I was a Senna fan so take that with a pinch of salt).

Some situations are really dangerous. Was it last year that someone (Ralf?) crashed in some finish line and the Safety Car was out for ages and F1 cars were still whooshing dangerously close to medics and stewards working on getting the pilot out? Are officials afraid that viewers/spectators will find it confusing to tell who's winning after a Red Flag? I feel it's much more unfair to ruin a pilot's hard-earned time-gap by sending in a SC every time someone loses a screw on the track. I think we've been seeing far too many safety cars on track and usually for the wrong reasons.

Or am I simply missing some point?

[Reca]

First of all, welcome Eowyn.

I totally agree with you, especially about the unfairness of the gap closing effect of the SC (although some could consider it a “spectacle enhancer”), but there’s a reason for that : tv.
Each rule is designed to keep the total length of the event (gp, podium, post race conference) as close as possible to the minimum “everything goes right” time required because tv schedule is rigid and world wide broadcast isn’t cheap. A red flag would make the whole event, at very minimum, 15-20 minutes longer, and that’s unacceptable nowadays hence, since a few years ago, the order to the race directors is to always use SC, the red flag only to end the race after 75% of the normal distance is completed. The official motivation being that the standing start after a red flag would put drivers in danger...

Same with MotoGP and the new “flag to flag” rule or with the ridiculously short WTCC races or again, outside motorsport, the ”new” volley rules. Each event is nowadays designed to suit tv schedule.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Sharkie17 said:

what crack are you smoking?

Sharkie, altho ure right the safetly car dropped the temperatures and therefore the pressures in Senna's tyres, and then the car bottomed out as a result and he went off the track. BUT Reca is right. The accident didn't kill senna....we've see much worse....what killed senna was that upon impact one of the wheels hit him on the head...this caused some sort of trauma to the head (the exact details of which I don't know).

Senna's death was just plain bad luck. Even if the safetly car did CAUSE him to go off the track and therefore get hit on the head by a wheel.

[Steven]

Senna's death was just plain bad luck. Even if the safetly car did CAUSE him to go off the track and therefore get hit on the head by a wheel.

Well not exactly a wheel, it's a bar of the suspension that protruded his helmet and cause brain damage.
But indeed, if that would not have happened have was probably seriously injured but would have survived and probably have raced again.