2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[mclaren113]

Shovlin said that Mercedes explored a radical set-up change leading up to the GP, developed by Hamilton in the simulator, and that it may have hurt their race pace and neutralized their rear degradation advantage.

“It is a difficult and quite peculiar circuit and Red Bull are normally strong here. But we’re also exploring a fairly wacky direction with the set-up as a radical approach, which I think was maybe a bit better on the single lap. The question that remains is whether we’ve hurt our degradation and we need to look at that in the next day or two.”

Full article:

https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/28/wac ... race-pace/

Interesting. Hamilton rarely uses the simulator so it shows that he's using every tool he can to try to get pace in to the car. That's good to see, I think, as it shows there is still the passion to win.

Agreed.

Ross Brawn did an interesting column today where he stated he thinks Merc have scope to close up the small deficit they’re facing, and that it wouldn’t take too many resources to come up with a new rear wing.

Hamilton just asked his team for a new RW design this weekend.

On a side note, Mercedes just had a 5% swing (relative to RBR) worth of wind tunnel time head back in its direction by virtue of the standings.

I think it's a matter of a couple of races until we see Mercedes at bar with red bull. They're mostly a couple of tenth from red bull in qualifying and as fast as them in races in most of them.

[zibby43]

Interesting. Hamilton rarely uses the simulator so it shows that he's using every tool he can to try to get pace in to the car. That's good to see, I think, as it shows there is still the passion to win.

Agreed.

Ross Brawn did an interesting column today where he stated he thinks Merc have scope to close up the small deficit they’re facing, and that it wouldn’t take too many resources to come up with a new rear wing.

Hamilton just asked his team for a new RW design this weekend.

On a side note, Mercedes just had a 5% swing (relative to RBR) worth of wind tunnel time head back in its direction by virtue of the standings.

I think it's a matter of a couple of races until we see Mercedes at bar with red bull. They're mostly a couple of tenth from red bull in qualifying and as fast as them in races in most of them.

I agree. I was worried about the sudden race pace deficit this past weekend until I learned that they had gone in a completely different setup direction.

They clearly did not have enough time to analyze the consequences of that change from a rear deg. perspective. But it’s encouraging that they did report the changes helped some with single lap pace and a wider operating window.

If they’re still making substantial discoveries like that at this point in the season, there’s definitely scope to extract more potential.

Finally, I think they need to go down a lower downforce route. They’ll make up the time on the straights and be more competitive there when they need to strike, and although extra downforce can protect the tires from less sliding, less downforce can take less life from the tires in the corners.

[zibby43]

Can I get an analysis/people's views on higher tyre pressures and higher temperatures making the RB better on performance and tyre degradation vs the Merc

If we get new tyres that lower the pressures, could we see the degradation come back for Red Bull and a slight race pace advantage for Mercedes?

Likely

I saw an article that said Lewis found a very odd setup direction that gave them more 1 lap pace, but might have affected their tyre wear, so they are looking into it.

https://f1i.com/news/410428-mercedes-su ... tyria.html

Yep, I posted on this page. Around the 3rd post from the bottom:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29590&start=1530

[Leon]

From the Team's marketing and reputational point of view, I doubt, that there will be no major upgrade or update package in a time. Modified front wing, bargeboards, engine cover with hot air exits, rear wing, diffuser, shorter base/floor, cooling shrinking or optimization, etc. The companies tend to spend too much money on secondary and tertiary stuff and things, so if they want they can find necessary resources.

[zibby43]

Pretty cool video showing Bottas' lap compared to Max's lap, which is overlaid in "ghost" mode.

Really, really effective at demonstrating the lines taken, where the Merc is losing out, and how close .194s really is:

[WaikeCU]

Are teams actually allowed to do a decent amount of running in testing with an older car during the season like fe. the W11?

[Marty_Y]

Are teams actually allowed to do a decent amount of running in testing with an older car during the season like fe. the W11?

I believe from memory, it has to be a two year old car, so they can use the W10.

[Marty_Y]

Likely

I saw an article that said Lewis found a very odd setup direction that gave them more 1 lap pace, but might have affected their tyre wear, so they are looking into it.

https://f1i.com/news/410428-mercedes-su ... tyria.html

Yes, read that as well. Also interesting to note as heard on the missed apex podcast that Merc have never been good in Austria during the years that they had close battles. 2018, 2021 which was won by Max and RB. Maybe it's a Max circuit and the high rake car has characteristics that make it just that bit better

I think in the past I've heard that Mercedes have had problems in Austria with things like the turbo not being optimized for the altitude, also the W10 had problems with cooling the PU in Austria.

It seemed like the W11 didn't have any of those problems last year, so I wonder if Austria specifically is causing problems for Mercedes or this is just the way it's going to be for the rest of the season?

Maybe the information about the radical set up explains a lot, does anyone know if both cars were set up radically or was it just Lewis that went down that path?

[zibby43]

I saw an article that said Lewis found a very odd setup direction that gave them more 1 lap pace, but might have affected their tyre wear, so they are looking into it.

https://f1i.com/news/410428-mercedes-su ... tyria.html

Yes, read that as well. Also interesting to note as heard on the missed apex podcast that Merc have never been good in Austria during the years that they had close battles. 2018, 2021 which was won by Max and RB. Maybe it's a Max circuit and the high rake car has characteristics that make it just that bit better

I think in the past I've heard that Mercedes have had problems in Austria with things like the turbo not being optimized for the altitude, also the W10 had problems with cooling the PU in Austria.

It seemed like the W11 didn't have any of those problems last year, so I wonder if Austria specifically is causing problems for Mercedes or this is just the way it's going to be for the rest of the season?

Maybe the information about the radical set up explains a lot, does anyone know if both cars were set up radically or was it just Lewis that went down that path?

Good question. Did some digging.

Bottas confirmed in a press conference, post-qualifying, that Lewis’ side of the garage helped with setup for qualifying and that he adopted the same setup.

[Marty_Y]

Yes, read that as well. Also interesting to note as heard on the missed apex podcast that Merc have never been good in Austria during the years that they had close battles. 2018, 2021 which was won by Max and RB. Maybe it's a Max circuit and the high rake car has characteristics that make it just that bit better

I think in the past I've heard that Mercedes have had problems in Austria with things like the turbo not being optimized for the altitude, also the W10 had problems with cooling the PU in Austria.

It seemed like the W11 didn't have any of those problems last year, so I wonder if Austria specifically is causing problems for Mercedes or this is just the way it's going to be for the rest of the season?

Maybe the information about the radical set up explains a lot, does anyone know if both cars were set up radically or was it just Lewis that went down that path?

Good question. Did some digging.

Bottas confirmed in a press conference, post-qualifying, that Lewis’ side of the garage helped with setup for qualifying and that he adopted the same setup.

Thanks, I don't think Lewis really got in what he would consider a Ideal lap in Q3, so maybe he can improve on Saturday.

I think Bottas did pretty well in qualification and the race. That video with Max superimposed over the top shows how close he was.

Although they will be using different tyres this weekend, so it will be interesting to see how different tyres/set ups and other factors come into play.

[zibby43]

I think in the past I've heard that Mercedes have had problems in Austria with things like the turbo not being optimized for the altitude, also the W10 had problems with cooling the PU in Austria.

It seemed like the W11 didn't have any of those problems last year, so I wonder if Austria specifically is causing problems for Mercedes or this is just the way it's going to be for the rest of the season?

Maybe the information about the radical set up explains a lot, does anyone know if both cars were set up radically or was it just Lewis that went down that path?

Good question. Did some digging.

Bottas confirmed in a press conference, post-qualifying, that Lewis’ side of the garage helped with setup for qualifying and that he adopted the same setup.

Thanks, I don't think Lewis really got in what he would consider a Ideal lap in Q3, so maybe he can improve on Saturday.

I think Bottas did pretty well in qualification and the race. That video with Max superimposed over the top shows how close he was.

Although they will be using different tyres this weekend, so it will be interesting to see how different tyres/set ups and other factors come into play.

No prob! I thought that was a very candid answer from Bottas. There’s clearly respect between the two.

I agree. I thought Lewis was a pole contender in FP3. And Bottas may have been stronger with a tow.

A lot of people think a Max pole/win is a forgone conclusion. And it probably is on pure pace, but a lot of things can happen in Austria and I doubt we get 2 snoozers in a row.

[Stormblessed]

I thought the sliding scale use of wind tunnel time based on standings was from 2022. Could the teams use additional time for current or next season? Do they have a choice?

[littlebigcat]

They can do what ever they want with their CFD and wind tunnel allocations. The reductions based on Championship position began on the 1st January, that will be reassessed tomorrow.

[littlebigcat]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57651115

Well. Fancy that.

[Big Tea]

Pretty cool video showing Bottas' lap compared to Max's lap, which is overlaid in "ghost" mode.

Really, really effective at demonstrating the lines taken, where the Merc is losing out, and how close .194s really is:

https://twitter.com/FormulaNerds/status ... 06794?s=20

Looking at that, does it seem the RBR is less affected by the 'rumble strips' than the Merc?
Someone previously suggested that the floor sections waving about must upset things, would this not tie in?