2021 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 02 - 04

[i70q7m7ghw]

They need to open up because they are accelerating. So as you said, they can lift a bit.
Not saying he should or should not, just that he could.

Yup. Perez also had the same option available to him.

[sosic2121]

How can defending driver have the racing line, when he left it when he decided to defend the in line?

And drivers choose their line through the corner. They choose when to accelerate and widen their lines.

Pushing others drivers out is not racing. Overtake on the outside is!

It's disgusting that this was allowed for so many years, probably because best drivers did it...
I hope, since yesterday, we have precedent and stewards will protect guy on the outside, no matter if he's driving RB, ferrari, Mercedes or hass.

[NL_Fer]

Would be interesting if the inside driver is trying to steer more into the corner and than understeers to the overtaking driver

[aMessageToCharlie]

I agree with all three penalties yesterday and I've criticized this kind of defending before. If you let people get away with simply driving the outside driver off track, then we will never see exciting racing as it could be.

"You always have to leave the space!"

Look at Alonso vs. Russell. Pure masterclass of hard AND fair driving. This is what racing is about and not the "it's my corner, I'll run you off the road"- bs.

And I think stewards should also be more aware of people abusing the run off zones.

Plenty of examples from this and last weekend, where people were taking to the run off zones and flooring it to defend being overtaken. Ask Alonso about that one, too...

[cplchanb]

I can see from both sides but honestly I think leclerc was playing with fire yesterday and got the lucky end of the stick. His second off was actually a bit reckless as he was risking it all on the outside of a closing corner and essentially jamming himself into a closing door. He was very lucky that he didn't get knocked out of the race there and perez would've had no chance of avoiding that because he was already opening up. Had perez suddenly lifted and swerved to avoid leclerc he possibly could've spun himself as it was mid high speed corner and lelerc may have gotten a penalty for dangerous driving... imo a potential lose lose for leclerc. Then again all 3 attempted passes were imo way too desperate and uncalculated

[Mogster]

The T5 go may have been risky but Chaz was 4 wheels on track with his front axle level with Perez’s, I don’t feel you can continue to drive your line and shove someone off in that circumstance.

The T4 incidents didn’t deserve penalties imo and as Horner is saying today it encourages drivers to play for penalties as we saw with Chaz repeating the same tactic on Perez yesterday. The whole situation needs review.

[Zynerji]

The T5 go may have been risky but Chaz was 4 wheels on track with his front axle level with Perez’s, I don’t feel you can continue to drive your line and shove someone off in that circumstance.

The T4 incidents didn’t deserve penalties imo and as Horner is saying today it encourages drivers to play for penalties as we saw with Chaz repeating the same tactic on Perez yesterday. The whole situation needs review.

I mean, IIRC, Hamilton did this to Rosberg at the start of the Spain race in 2014 or 2015, and it was deemed fair. (checked, not Spain, but I'll look harder. Its right at the beginning of the race, and whatever race it was, the same move happened in both years.)

Its the inconsistency that people dislike more than anything.

[Mogster]

That’s at the start though which seems to get a free pass, Max and Lewis at Imola?

[sosic2121]

it's what montoya did to Schumacher in Austria, and what Schumacher did to montoya in imola. in both cases faster driver lost because of dirty moves by slower driver.
back then the only penalty was stop and go so it was too harsh. but now we have reasonable penalties and there is no reason why proper racing shouldn't be protected.
all these stories about drivers being committed to the corner is load of bs since these happened on exit while accelerating. if driver is not able to modify his line on exit of the corner, he should be penalised for incompetence.

[Zynerji]

it's what montoya did to Schumacher in Austria, and what Schumacher did to montoya in imola. in both cases faster driver lost because of dirty moves by slower driver.
back then the only penalty was stop and go so it was too harsh. but now we have reasonable penalties and there is no reason why proper racing shouldn't be protected.
all these stories about drivers being committed to the corner is load of bs since these happened on exit while accelerating. if driver is not able to modify his line on exit of the corner, he should be penalised for incompetence.

Also,

Vettel was penalized for overtaking Alonso on the outside of the Curva Grande in Monza in 20(12/13?) for putting his tyres in the grass. Under current interpretations, Alonso would have been penalized for not leaving space instead....

[marvin78]

it's what montoya did to Schumacher in Austria, and what Schumacher did to montoya in imola. in both cases faster driver lost because of dirty moves by slower driver.
back then the only penalty was stop and go so it was too harsh. but now we have reasonable penalties and there is no reason why proper racing shouldn't be protected.
all these stories about drivers being committed to the corner is load of bs since these happened on exit while accelerating. if driver is not able to modify his line on exit of the corner, he should be penalised for incompetence.

Also,

Vettel was penalized for overtaking Alonso on the outside of the Curva Grande in Monza in 20(12/13?) for putting his tyres in the grass. Under current interpretations, Alonso would have been penalized for not leaving space instead....

Was he? I remember the incident but I don't remember the penalty.

[Zynerji]

it's what montoya did to Schumacher in Austria, and what Schumacher did to montoya in imola. in both cases faster driver lost because of dirty moves by slower driver.
back then the only penalty was stop and go so it was too harsh. but now we have reasonable penalties and there is no reason why proper racing shouldn't be protected.
all these stories about drivers being committed to the corner is load of bs since these happened on exit while accelerating. if driver is not able to modify his line on exit of the corner, he should be penalised for incompetence.

Also,

Vettel was penalized for overtaking Alonso on the outside of the Curva Grande in Monza in 20(12/13?) for putting his tyres in the grass. Under current interpretations, Alonso would have been penalized for not leaving space instead....

Was he? I remember the incident but I don't remember the penalty.

The stewards in Italy punished the man who passed a Ferrari on the grass. Probably a bit of BS due to that, but it did get a penalty.

PS: For those with F1TV, its 2011 Monza @ 17 minute...

[marvin78]

I think he won that race. What was the penalty?

[RZS10]

Nothing of the sort happened, he overtook him with both wheels on the grass in 2011 and claimed the win but there were no consequences and iirc there was enough space for a car on the left, even if no driver could realistically place it there. Roles were reversed in 2012 where Vettel got a drive through for running Alonso off track, which was probably the minimum penalty back then.

[marvin78]

Nothing of the sort happened, he overtook him with both wheels on the grass in 2011 and claimed the win but there were no consequences and iirc there was enough space for a car on the left, even if no driver could realistically place it there. Roles were reversed in 2012 where Vettel got a drive through for running Alonso off track, which was probably the minimum penalty back then.

I just rewatched the scene on youtube. It was 2 wheels on the gras, he won the race and according to all articles I found, there was no penalty whatsoever. So I think we can bury this.