2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[RZS10]

With regards to the veracity of that article, an article which was posted today says that they will not try to force any further penalties because they know there's no chance to succeed.

google translate with a few touchups:

Nevertheless, Red Bull will refrain from further steps and will put the incident behind them. Because: "According to the sports law (sporting regs), an appeal would only make sense if you brought in new information/findings. These are not given," explains Marko. An appeal would therefore have no chance of success.

[RZS10]

Fair enough, i should have checked/clicked on the linked source, but isn't the quote in the Kronen article from yesterday as well? I doubt they talked to him during the night or at 5am in the morning, it would also be weird if he changed his mind on the very same day.

[Wouter]

Martin Brundle: Red Bull has data on Hamilton's speed

And that could be a key part of the legal case Red Bull is looking to bring against Hamilton and Mercedes. Brundle claims that Red Bull at least has that data.

"I have been told by Red Bull that there is data that they can use to prove that Hamilton went into Copse Corner significantly faster than at any other time and that he could not have made the corner without going wide and inevitably tapping Verstappen in the end."

"It is likely that this data will come out," Brundle continued, "And if Red Bull think they have 'new evidence', then they can appeal to the FIA because they think Hamilton is more at fault than first thought and the punishment for the Briton was handled too leniently."

"Hitting the barrier sideways hurts a lot, your ankles and knees can clatter together and your pelvis, ribs, shoulder and neck take a massive lateral load. Your head slaps into the headrest but thankfully that and crash helmet technology and design is good now."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89681/re ... ilton.html

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12040 ... -collision

[TNTHead]

Martin Brundle: Red Bull has data on Hamilton's speed

And that could be a key part of the legal case Red Bull is looking to bring against Hamilton and Mercedes. Brundle claims that Red Bull at least has that data.

"I have been told by Red Bull that there is data that they can use to prove that Hamilton went into Copse Corner significantly faster than at any other time and that he could not have made the corner without going wide and inevitably tapping Verstappen in the end."

"It is likely that this data will come out," Brundle continued, "And if Red Bull think they have 'new evidence', then they can appeal to the FIA because they think Hamilton is more at fault than first thought and the punishment for the Briton was handled too leniently."

"Hitting the barrier sideways hurts a lot, your ankles and knees can clatter together and your pelvis, ribs, shoulder and neck take a massive lateral load. Your head slaps into the headrest but thankfully that and crash helmet technology and design is good now."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89681/re ... ilton.html

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12040 ... -collision

Oof, if this data is indeed there, that makes a case more plausible. The suggestion is even that it was intentional. The last word of this has not been said yet. Crashgate in the making? Or is this only poking up the fire?

I wonder whether this can be seen from the onboards. May be some helpful forum members can provide us some insights?

[Zynerji]

Martin Brundle: Red Bull has data on Hamilton's speed

And that could be a key part of the legal case Red Bull is looking to bring against Hamilton and Mercedes. Brundle claims that Red Bull at least has that data.

"I have been told by Red Bull that there is data that they can use to prove that Hamilton went into Copse Corner significantly faster than at any other time and that he could not have made the corner without going wide and inevitably tapping Verstappen in the end."

"It is likely that this data will come out," Brundle continued, "And if Red Bull think they have 'new evidence', then they can appeal to the FIA because they think Hamilton is more at fault than first thought and the punishment for the Briton was handled too leniently."

"Hitting the barrier sideways hurts a lot, your ankles and knees can clatter together and your pelvis, ribs, shoulder and neck take a massive lateral load. Your head slaps into the headrest but thankfully that and crash helmet technology and design is good now."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89681/re ... ilton.html

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12040 ... -collision

If they push this too far...

[dans79]

Crashgate in the making? Or is this only poking up the fire?

Probably the later, as the FIA/stewards have access to far more data than Red Bull does.

[f1jcw]

[Jolle]

Martin Brundle: Red Bull has data on Hamilton's speed

And that could be a key part of the legal case Red Bull is looking to bring against Hamilton and Mercedes. Brundle claims that Red Bull at least has that data.

"I have been told by Red Bull that there is data that they can use to prove that Hamilton went into Copse Corner significantly faster than at any other time and that he could not have made the corner without going wide and inevitably tapping Verstappen in the end."

"It is likely that this data will come out," Brundle continued, "And if Red Bull think they have 'new evidence', then they can appeal to the FIA because they think Hamilton is more at fault than first thought and the punishment for the Briton was handled too leniently."

"Hitting the barrier sideways hurts a lot, your ankles and knees can clatter together and your pelvis, ribs, shoulder and neck take a massive lateral load. Your head slaps into the headrest but thankfully that and crash helmet technology and design is good now."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89681/re ... ilton.html

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12040 ... -collision

If they push this too far...

Maybe I'm missing something... but at the time of impact Verstappen had a lot more speed then Hamilton (almost side by side at the end of the braking zone, while on the wider line, they touched on front to rear wheel).

how in earth could Hamilton, while in full control of his car, heading for the apex, miss the corner while Verstappen would make it?

or, Brundle has put his ear to the wrong ground or RedBull is again finding ways to push a narrative that isn't there.

[PhillipM]

Exactly.
Of course he had more speed going in, he had DRS.
When they crashed, Max was going faster than hamilton, so where are they gonna pull that one out of?

[El Scorchio]

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89681/re ... ilton.html

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12040 ... -collision

If they push this too far...

Maybe I'm missing something... but at the time of impact Verstappen had a lot more speed then Hamilton (almost side by side at the end of the braking zone, while on the wider line, they touched on front to rear wheel).

how in earth could Hamilton, while in full control of his car, heading for the apex, miss the corner while Verstappen would make it?

That is a valid point. Verstappen's speed entering the corner was greater than Hamilton's, and you wouldn't consider either car's speed excessive, out of control or in danger of locking up or not making the corner. The contact was Verstappen's rear wheel catching up with/overtaking Hamilton's front wheel.

If Hamilton's speed was greater there than on other laps, it was probably due to him getting a massive slipstream and tow from Verstappen down the preceding straight.

[Hoffman900]

I’m not convinced Max makes the corner, while staying in bounds, anymore than Lewis hitting his apex (contact happened before Lewis’ apex point).

As I mentioned in the other thread, these paved runoff areas, and lack of lap 1 enforcement leads to this. You can enter a corner side by side, and of course the outside car can carry more speed and inch ahead, and “claim” it’s their corner. Reality is, if there was grass at the outside of Copse, Max has to bail and the odds of Lewis taking the lead in that corner are much higher.

That would be a tough one for RedBull to prove and mostly sounds like more Marko hot air. I feel like to prove their point, they also have to prove Max makes the corner too and doesn’t end over over the curbs, which considering he was going faster than Lewis, might be a tall order.

[Hoffman900]

The problem is Max was never going to make the apex either, and be way wide of it, while simultaneously carrying more speed than Lewis. And while Lewis would be losing some air, Max’s car would also be feeling the effects of outwash and Lewis’ car on the rear downforce levels… he was far enough along side for that to be true.

As I said, RedBull has to prove Max was going to make the corner, in bounds, too for their argument to be valid.

[RZS10]

ok i got tricked into thinking this was the race thread, please delete.

[ispano6]

What is wrong with you people, wrong thread!

[LaplacesDemon]

Have we sunk that low in the discussion already?

If Lewis was going to fall off because of his speed as RB claim (although he made the corner perfectly despite getting his front wheel rim split ), then yes, by their own claim Max wasn't making the corner either.

The line Lewis was taking was always going to cross Max's at that speed. How it is that you can say that he made the corner perfectly is beyond me.

The problem is not the fact that their lines crossed. The problem was that they were both at the intersection point at the same time