2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[politburo]

None of the teams cannot talk back and forth to the stewards over the radio, only to the race director

During the session. However the race director can talk to the chairman of the stewards over the radio.

On Skysport were heard Toto talking to Masi and Masi specifically telling Toto to go see the Stewarts with the information, that he was allowed.

I was clearly replying to he suggestion in the op that teams/horner/toto communicate back and forth with the stewards over the radio.

[diffuser]

The big teams have side projects or possibly even ghost projects to keep flexible, they won’t have to fire people. Small teams not hitting the budget cap is a whole other story. When a HAAS gets totalled, they have to find funds to buy a new car from Dalara or Williams who have to shift their limited resources.
RedBull just pulls some manufacturing hours from RedBull Technology and shifts some R&D power that way. The F1 project is budget limited, the whole company isn’t.

Not sure what you're saying. Do I think that teams budget $$$ for accidents? Yes they do. They don't fire people they just don't hire, cause it's not in the budge. Whatever $$$ go into accidents, don't go into salaries. Have they let people go to get under the budget? Yes.

What I mean, for instance, Mercedes has a pool of people (engineers, R&D, designers, manufacturers, etc) that they can shift between projects. The F1 departement is one of those projects (and the biggest one). After the imola crash they had, for a guess, shift 5 designers working on the 22 car temporarily to the “applied technology” department, working, for instance on the next Americas cup boat, and transfer 5 manufacturer workers and some material from the INEOS project to the F1 project.

Right, those 5 people's salaries didn't go towards the CAP before. They do once they start working on the F1 car. It would still have to come out of "accident budget".

[Jolle]

Not sure what you're saying. Do I think that teams budget $$$ for accidents? Yes they do. They don't fire people they just don't hire, cause it's not in the budge. Whatever $$$ go into accidents, don't go into salaries. Have they let people go to get under the budget? Yes.

What I mean, for instance, Mercedes has a pool of people (engineers, R&D, designers, manufacturers, etc) that they can shift between projects. The F1 departement is one of those projects (and the biggest one). After the imola crash they had, for a guess, shift 5 designers working on the 22 car temporarily to the “applied technology” department, working, for instance on the next Americas cup boat, and transfer 5 manufacturer workers and some material from the INEOS project to the F1 project.

Right, those 5 people's salaries didn't go towards the CAP before. They do once they start working on the F1 car. It would still have to come out of "accident budget".

Yes, in a sense. It’s a way to shift budgets within the cost cap without laying off people. That’s why the big teams created this flexibility

[ispano6]

One of the reasons I love RB is Horner and his no BS attitude. Wouldn't change anything in there, no.

Yep exactly, I wouldn't want Horner any other way.

Horner didn't have the audacity to go directly to the stewards, and if Masi told Toto to go the stewards, then it's likely that the stewards told Masi Toto shouldn't have been there.

[the EDGE]

One of the reasons I love RB is Horner and his no BS attitude. Wouldn't change anything in there, no.

Yep exactly, I wouldn't want Horner any other way.

Horner didn't have the audacity to go directly to the stewards, and if Masi told Toto to go the stewards, then it's likely that the stewards told Masi Toto shouldn't have been there.

It’s equally as likely Horner bursting through the door led to the re-think TBH

I can just imagine the tense atmosphere with the pair of them squaring-off in the stewards office

[godlameroso]

Not saying it's a write-off, but if it were, would it be worth taking a third power unit early, and sacrifice a race? The alternative would be carry on with a potentially damaged #2, a tired #1 neither of which would be ideal. If a power unit fails that's another 25 points lost, fighting your way back you'd still have a chance to score a podium.

#1 could likely do Hungary, so there is time to weigh out the available options.

[f1jcw]

Not saying it's a write-off, but if it were, would it be worth taking a third power unit early, and sacrifice a race? The alternative would be carry on with a potentially damaged #2, a tired #1 neither of which would be ideal. If a power unit fails that's another 25 points lost, fighting your way back you'd still have a chance to score a podium.

#1 could likely do Hungary, so there is time to weigh out the available options.

If there are any doubts over it, it’ll be used for practice, plus a engine is made up of parts, some might need replacing but not all.

[Jolle]

Not saying it's a write-off, but if it were, would it be worth taking a third power unit early, and sacrifice a race? The alternative would be carry on with a potentially damaged #2, a tired #1 neither of which would be ideal. If a power unit fails that's another 25 points lost, fighting your way back you'd still have a chance to score a podium.

#1 could likely do Hungary, so there is time to weigh out the available options.

If there are any doubts over it, it’ll be used for practice, plus a engine is made up of parts, some might need replacing but not all.

If you open up the engine, you can either not use it or it’s counted as a new unit.

[f1jcw]

Not saying it's a write-off, but if it were, would it be worth taking a third power unit early, and sacrifice a race? The alternative would be carry on with a potentially damaged #2, a tired #1 neither of which would be ideal. If a power unit fails that's another 25 points lost, fighting your way back you'd still have a chance to score a podium.

#1 could likely do Hungary, so there is time to weigh out the available options.

If there are any doubts over it, it’ll be used for practice, plus a engine is made up of parts, some might need replacing but not all.

If you open up the engine, you can either not use it or it’s counted as a new unit.

There’s being times in the past, eg: when Lewis had a engine fire, that they had to replace parts like the control unit but the rest of it was okay

[ispano6]

Not saying it's a write-off, but if it were, would it be worth taking a third power unit early, and sacrifice a race? The alternative would be carry on with a potentially damaged #2, a tired #1 neither of which would be ideal. If a power unit fails that's another 25 points lost, fighting your way back you'd still have a chance to score a podium.

#1 could likely do Hungary, so there is time to weigh out the available options.

If there are any doubts over it, it’ll be used for practice, plus a engine is made up of parts, some might need replacing but not all.

Yeah so long as the ICE is good, ancillaries can be replaced. If Ham himself has a crash and loses an engine then it's back to a level playing field as well. Like Wouter said its probably better to take a new PU and build up a lead again like prior to Silverstone and take the grid penalty in a race where a yellow or red is bound to happen.

[Jolle]

If there are any doubts over it, it’ll be used for practice, plus a engine is made up of parts, some might need replacing but not all.

If you open up the engine, you can either not use it or it’s counted as a new unit.

There’s being times in the past, eg: when Lewis had a engine fire, that they had to replace parts like the control unit but the rest of it was okay

The control unit is another part where they are only allowed two each season.

The ICE is sealed. They can change wirelooms, plumbing, outside sensors, spark plugs etc but don’t open the block.

From the top of my head they have 3 ICE’s, 3 Turbo’s and 3 K units. I might be mistaken but 2 K and CE and eight exhausts.

All are sealed. If you break a seal and use it after, it’s counted as a new unit.

[godlameroso]

Not saying it's a write-off, but if it were, would it be worth taking a third power unit early, and sacrifice a race? The alternative would be carry on with a potentially damaged #2, a tired #1 neither of which would be ideal. If a power unit fails that's another 25 points lost, fighting your way back you'd still have a chance to score a podium.

#1 could likely do Hungary, so there is time to weigh out the available options.

If there are any doubts over it, it’ll be used for practice, plus a engine is made up of parts, some might need replacing but not all.

If you open up the engine, you can either not use it or it’s counted as a new unit.

If my amateur self can use a boroscope to inspect so can Honda, it takes nothing but pulling a spark plug to look at the cylinders, or tugging on the crank to measure thrust play. There should be absolutely no need to open up the engine to determine its viability.

[Jolle]

If there are any doubts over it, it’ll be used for practice, plus a engine is made up of parts, some might need replacing but not all.

If you open up the engine, you can either not use it or it’s counted as a new unit.

If my amateur self can use a boroscope to inspect so can Honda, it takes nothing but pulling a spark plug, or tugging on the crank to measure thrust play. There should be absolutely no need to open up the engine to determine its viability.

Of course they do that, with every service. And with oil analysis, probably x-raying, sonic test while on a test jig, etc etc. It’s a bit more then installing it and hope for the best.

[Wouter]

If you open up the engine, you can either not use it or it’s counted as a new unit.

There’s being times in the past, eg: when Lewis had a engine fire, that they had to replace parts like the control unit but the rest of it was okay

The control unit is another part where they are only allowed two each season.

The ICE is sealed. They can change wirelooms, plumbing, outside sensors, spark plugs etc but don’t open the block.

From the top of my head they have 3 ICE’s, 3 Turbo’s and 3 K units. I might be mistaken but 2 K and CE and eight exhausts.

All are sealed. If you break a seal and use it after, it’s counted as a new unit.

Can you explain to me why Honda disassembled the entire PU in Sakura, to see if it is still usable, if that PU counts as a new one, because the seal is broken?
Then it would be much better for them to immediately use a new, fresh, unused 3rd PU?

Yamamoto also hopes that the PU can still be used after they have completely disassembled and checked it.
That doesn't match your story.

[Jolle]

There’s being times in the past, eg: when Lewis had a engine fire, that they had to replace parts like the control unit but the rest of it was okay

The control unit is another part where they are only allowed two each season.

The ICE is sealed. They can change wirelooms, plumbing, outside sensors, spark plugs etc but don’t open the block.

From the top of my head they have 3 ICE’s, 3 Turbo’s and 3 K units. I might be mistaken but 2 K and CE and eight exhausts.

All are sealed. If you break a seal and use it after, it’s counted as a new unit.

Can you explain to me why Honda disassembled the entire PU in Sakura, to see if it is still usable, if that PU counts as a new one, because the seal is broken?
Then it would be much better for them to immediately use a new, fresh, unused 3rd PU?

Yamamoto also hopes that the PU can still be used after they have completely disassembled and checked it.
That doesn't match your story.

Haven't read the news, but probably they ment to disassembled as far as they could. So bare block, probing it anyway they could. An open seal = scrap engine or for testing days.