2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[Big Tea]

I'm sure it will be closer come Qualifying though as Max just looked to be really unhappy with his car.

That in itself is odd to me. Given the track temps, I expected redbull to be well clear of Mercedes who historically hasn't liked high track temperatures, and thus has a boat load of problems setting up the car.

Given the high temps, and the RBR having a tighter package, would not opening more cooling have a greater effect on RBR? Balance as well as just flowing air as it is not available to do work.

[santos]

Is there a rank about who spin the most this season?

[Starkblood80]

Mercedes using more power than Red Bull, both FPs. On their fastest laps, in both practice using Softs, Bottas did 314kph at the end of straight and Max was 304kph. Max rounds off the last turn before starting his flying lap, 10kph faster than Bottas and ends straight with 10kph down. In the comparison video from FP1, Bottas was stretching ahead on all the straights and Max was pulling it back through corners.

Could be power mode, could be drag/downforce relationship. Maybe RedBull are carrying more downforce and thus drag, hence coming off the last corner faster but slower by the end of the straight. With the same power but slightly higher downforce/drag you'd get exactly the same situation. Also fuel loads - if Merc was carrying more weight, they'd be slower in the corners but weight doesn't affect top speed (only how long it takes to get to it). So many variables that one can't, at this stage, say "it's the power mode being used".

I guess we'll find out tomorrow and Sunday.

It'll be interesting to see whether the relatively lower tyre pressures this weekend help Merc to look after the tyres whilst carrying slightly less downforce. That would make them untouchable on the straight / easier for them to overtake on the straight. It's all part of the balancing of variables that makes F1 interesting.

You do understand the level of drag required for 10kph difference right? Besides, Mercedes is running their usual barn door here, compared to Red Bull's relatively trimmed version. The 10kph difference was observable in long runs too. While Lewis was clocking 296kph on straights, Max was doing 286kph as observed on their respective laps when there was no toe effect.

I thought the RB and Mercedes rear wings look pretty comparable to be honest.

[Mchamilton]

One other thing, would a tighter exit on 2 help carry more speed through 3, or is using all the road on the exit of 2 faster? I've never been able to make the standard line work for me.

Turn 3 is pretty easy flat so ita better to run wider through 2 ans carrh the extra speed as much as possible

[HungarianRacer]

I'm sure it will be closer come Qualifying though as Max just looked to be really unhappy with his car.

That in itself is odd to me. Given the track temps, I expected redbull to be well clear of Mercedes who historically hasn't liked high track temperatures, and thus has a boat load of problems setting up the car.

Given the high temps, and the RBR having a tighter package, would not opening more cooling have a greater effect on RBR? Balance as well as just flowing air as it is not available to do work.

Red Bull always runs with larger rear heat outlets, it's part of their overall aero concept... And why would Mercedes' car have a higher innate cooling margin? Thier chassis is tighter at certain areas, bulkier at others, but if I was a betting man, I'd say their rear is actually smaller in overall volume starting from the cockpit or even the sidepod-separating cross section...

[jurinius]

Both Mercs higher at speedtrap, this can be good indication for us. If there is an opportunity to push Redbull PU they shouldn't let it go.

[godlameroso]

One other thing, would a tighter exit on 2 help carry more speed through 3, or is using all the road on the exit of 2 faster? I've never been able to make the standard line work for me.

Turn 3 is pretty easy flat so ita better to run wider through 2 ans carrh the extra speed as much as possible

Ok thanks, I thought you lost more speed scrubbing through 3, than with a tighter exit on 2 and straight lining 3. I guess I was wrong.

[Just_a_fan]

Mercedes using more power than Red Bull, both FPs. On their fastest laps, in both practice using Softs, Bottas did 314kph at the end of straight and Max was 304kph. Max rounds off the last turn before starting his flying lap, 10kph faster than Bottas and ends straight with 10kph down. In the comparison video from FP1, Bottas was stretching ahead on all the straights and Max was pulling it back through corners.

Could be power mode, could be drag/downforce relationship. Maybe RedBull are carrying more downforce and thus drag, hence coming off the last corner faster but slower by the end of the straight. With the same power but slightly higher downforce/drag you'd get exactly the same situation. Also fuel loads - if Merc was carrying more weight, they'd be slower in the corners but weight doesn't affect top speed (only how long it takes to get to it). So many variables that one can't, at this stage, say "it's the power mode being used".

I guess we'll find out tomorrow and Sunday.

It'll be interesting to see whether the relatively lower tyre pressures this weekend help Merc to look after the tyres whilst carrying slightly less downforce. That would make them untouchable on the straight / easier for them to overtake on the straight. It's all part of the balancing of variables that makes F1 interesting.

You do understand the level of drag required for 10kph difference right? Besides, Mercedes is running their usual barn door here, compared to Red Bull's relatively trimmed version. The 10kph difference was observable in long runs too. While Lewis was clocking 296kph on straights, Max was doing 286kph as observed on their respective laps when there was no toe effect.

Drag increases with the square of velocity.

Power absorbed by drag increases with the cube of velocity.

Rear wing is only a small part of a car's total drag and thus the rear wing is only a small part of the total power absorption.

Rear wing is a useful but not conclusive indicator of engine power used.

So...

[Ryar]

Could be power mode, could be drag/downforce relationship. Maybe RedBull are carrying more downforce and thus drag, hence coming off the last corner faster but slower by the end of the straight. With the same power but slightly higher downforce/drag you'd get exactly the same situation. Also fuel loads - if Merc was carrying more weight, they'd be slower in the corners but weight doesn't affect top speed (only how long it takes to get to it). So many variables that one can't, at this stage, say "it's the power mode being used".

I guess we'll find out tomorrow and Sunday.

It'll be interesting to see whether the relatively lower tyre pressures this weekend help Merc to look after the tyres whilst carrying slightly less downforce. That would make them untouchable on the straight / easier for them to overtake on the straight. It's all part of the balancing of variables that makes F1 interesting.

You do understand the level of drag required for 10kph difference right? Besides, Mercedes is running their usual barn door here, compared to Red Bull's relatively trimmed version. The 10kph difference was observable in long runs too. While Lewis was clocking 296kph on straights, Max was doing 286kph as observed on their respective laps when there was no toe effect.

Drag increases with the square of velocity.

Power absorbed by drag increases with the cube of velocity.

Rear wing is only a small part of a car's total drag and thus the rear wing is only a small part of the total power absorption.

Rear wing is a useful but not conclusive indicator of engine power used.

So...

I can read better articles on Internet than that. But hey.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 1eJny.html



https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... on-friday/

GPS analysis of the Mercedes and Red Bull showed that the latter was losing almost 0.5s to the Mercedes on the straights and making up only around 0.25s of that through the slow- and medium-speed corners. But this was with a mismatch in how bad the balance was between the two cars – and with a Honda power unit setting which appeared to be more conservative than that of Mercedes.

So...

[Hoffman900]

Key word is “appeared”. No one but the team knows for sure.

And likely, only a few in the team really know. If you don’t need to know something in the team, then they don’t tell you.

I bet the drivers couldn’t tell you how much power these engines make. It’s inconsequential.

[dans79]

But this was with a mismatch in how bad the balance was between the two cars – and with a Honda power unit setting which appeared to be more conservative than that of Mercedes.

Given how much they opened up the rear of the car, they are probably running conservatively because they are worried about overheating the engine.

[Ryar]

But this was with a mismatch in how bad the balance was between the two cars – and with a Honda power unit setting which appeared to be more conservative than that of Mercedes.

Given how much they opened up the rear of the car, they are probably running conservatively because they are worried about overheating the engine.

Less than 24 hours and we will find out.

[HungarianRacer]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 1eJny.html

[img]I can read better articles on Internet than that. But hey.

https://www.formula1.com/content/dam/f ... /image.jpg

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... on-friday/

GPS analysis of the Mercedes and Red Bull showed that the latter was losing almost 0.5s to the Mercedes on the straights and making up only around 0.25s of that through the slow- and medium-speed corners. But this was with a mismatch in how bad the balance was between the two cars – and with a Honda power unit setting which appeared to be more conservative than that of Mercedes.

So...

Keep in mind that this is the first time Red Bull mounted a barn door rear wing that had to pass the new more stringent stress tests on their car, so we're yet to see how they can cope with such setup.

[djones]

I thought the new tests for the rear wing were a few races ago. Have there been more changes to the testing for here?

It's my opinion that the Mercedes engine is still comfortably ahead. What makes Honda appear to have made a lot of progress was Mercedes having inefficient downforce. Mercedes were having to make up for a lack of downforce with huge draggy wings.

If the new Mercedes fixes (I think they are fixes not improvements) have helped them not have to run huge wings we will not see Redbull faster on any straight for the rest of the season.

Additionally... I don't know why every set of FP sessions it's thought Mercedes are running higher engine modes. For as long as my poor memory can remember Mercedes have not once used anything more than low power until Q2.

[dans79]

I thought the new tests for the rear wing were a few races ago. Have there been more changes to the testing for here?

You are correct, but what the other user was saying, was that teams have not had to run maximum downforce wings since before the new tests where put in place.