2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Ryar]

Since Silverstone, it has gone bigger. To me, that seems like RB has been hurt with the compound construction change. Classic 2019 scenario.

Is that luck or skill that sees RBR having poor balance on revised Pirelli?

Pirelli has suitable technical reasons after all.

More apt is Pirelli's stupidity.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Then Max would have still ended second at worst. Like every race so far when he actually finished. Two of the three times he was in the lead when disaster struck and the third time (today) in p2.

Exactly. Horner said it on SKY, they lost 3 races this year to bad luck, they would have won them comfortably. Red Bull has the fastest car this year by a decent margin, I fully expect them to pull this back and take both championships. That kind of car advantage doesn't just disappear, and the budget cap this year makes it very difficult for teams to out-develop each other.

They did have a clear overhand in Austria, but that was fully lost at Silverstone

How do you explain the sprint race?

[DChemTech]

Since Silverstone, it has gone bigger. To me, that seems like RB has been hurt with the compound construction change. Classic 2019 scenario.

Is that luck or skill that sees RBR having poor balance on revised Pirelli?

Pirelli has suitable technical reasons after all.

More apt is Pirelli's stupidity.

I do think that's a bit harsh; it is questionable whether the rather drastic change as such was needed, however. Yes, the crashes were bad, but the conditions also seemed extraordinary. There hadn't been problems in other races, and of course there was the discussion around pressures and all. Less impactful remedies may have been possible.
Regardless, what stands is that on-the-fly regulation changes have been mainly harming RB this season, the tire change seemingly the most impactful so far. But also the sudden change in allowed wing bending tolerances (based on subjective, visual notions in relation to very poorly written rules) and the proposed changes to pitstops (which seemed to address no practically encountered issue whatsoever) asymmetrically affect teams, and thereby potentially impact the championship fight. And that is just a completely undesirable situation.

[DChemTech]

Exactly. Horner said it on SKY, they lost 3 races this year to bad luck, they would have won them comfortably. Red Bull has the fastest car this year by a decent margin, I fully expect them to pull this back and take both championships. That kind of car advantage doesn't just disappear, and the budget cap this year makes it very difficult for teams to out-develop each other.

They did have a clear overhand in Austria, but that was fully lost at Silverstone

How do you explain the sprint race?

That sounds a bit like "if global warming is real, why is it snowing now???"

Max had a good start, landed a risky overtake, and managed to keep the lead. Lewis could follow quite well, but didn't have overspeed to strike back. A pretty clear sign of them being equal, or thereabouts. Add to that that Lewis had pole, was attacking throughout the first lap of the real race, and Bottas > Perez, and I think the advantage slightly points towards MB. Of course, different conditions between sessions may also play some role.

[i70q7m7ghw]

They did have a clear overhand in Austria, but that was fully lost at Silverstone

How do you explain the sprint race?

That sounds a bit like "if global warming is real, why is it snowing now???"

Max had a good start, landed a risky overtake, and managed to keep the lead. Lewis could follow quite well, but didn't have overspeed to strike back. A pretty clear sign of them being equal, or thereabouts. Add to that that Lewis had pole, was attacking throughout the first lap of the real race, and Bottas > Perez, and I think the advantage slightly points towards MB. Of course, different conditions between sessions may also play some role.

So I guess if RB & Max win the championship, they'd have done it using the slower car and it'll be even more of an achievement? Which one was the narrative created by the fans again?

Red Bull beating the dominant Mercedes to the title is great for marketing, and that is ultimately why Red Bull is in the sport. It is also possible they have a quicker car at some circuits, I don't think that's so hard to believe. I think the Red Bull engineers should be shown respect on that front.

[DChemTech]

How do you explain the sprint race?

That sounds a bit like "if global warming is real, why is it snowing now???"

Max had a good start, landed a risky overtake, and managed to keep the lead. Lewis could follow quite well, but didn't have overspeed to strike back. A pretty clear sign of them being equal, or thereabouts. Add to that that Lewis had pole, was attacking throughout the first lap of the real race, and Bottas > Perez, and I think the advantage slightly points towards MB. Of course, different conditions between sessions may also play some role.

So I guess if RB & Max win the championship, they'd have done it using the slower car and it'll be even more of an achievement? Which one was the narrative created by the fans again?

Did I say that anywhere? No, I think I outlined pretty clearly that the car performance advantage has been going back and forth between races, and it may or may not keep on doing so. The narrative that the RB is the consistent underdog is just as false as the narrative that the MB is, but I do see the latter being mentioned more, especially in the race threads.

[Sieper]

Exactly. Horner said it on SKY, they lost 3 races this year to bad luck, they would have won them comfortably. Red Bull has the fastest car this year by a decent margin, I fully expect them to pull this back and take both championships. That kind of car advantage doesn't just disappear, and the budget cap this year makes it very difficult for teams to out-develop each other.

They did have a clear overhand in Austria, but that was fully lost at Silverstone

How do you explain the sprint race?

I think that made a lot clear. For me, for you, and dare I say it (yes I do) also for Lewis. The next day it stopped being a fair battle. I know you are his fan and I am Max and let's not go over that incident again because all has been said and then some but it certainly was "Rosberg" reminiscent. Lewis wanted and needed that victory and he got it. And now with this next bad luck moment yesterday (Bottas blundered) he is comfortably ahead (RBR will need to take another engine at some point, maybe even 2).

[Pany]

"magically", after rear wing revision, new tires pro mercedes are changing championship results. What else now? ridicolous!! (not considering last two GPs with zero points for the team). I am really sorry Formula 1 is become more and more less sporty activity

[Sieper]

That sounds a bit like "if global warming is real, why is it snowing now???"

Max had a good start, landed a risky overtake, and managed to keep the lead. Lewis could follow quite well, but didn't have overspeed to strike back. A pretty clear sign of them being equal, or thereabouts. Add to that that Lewis had pole, was attacking throughout the first lap of the real race, and Bottas > Perez, and I think the advantage slightly points towards MB. Of course, different conditions between sessions may also play some role.

So I guess if RB & Max win the championship, they'd have done it using the slower car and it'll be even more of an achievement? Which one was the narrative created by the fans again?

Did I say that anywhere? No, I think I outlined pretty clearly that the car performance advantage has been going back and forth between races, and it may or may not keep on doing so. The narrative that the RB is the consistent underdog is just as false as the narrative that the MB is, but I do see the latter being mentioned more, especially in the race threads.

That is because the Lewis fans are about 10 to 1 in the race threads (against Max) and they completely dominate the narrative. In fact, we have even here in the team thread like 4 pages straight of the same. Fans (like I am, but of Max) usually tend to have a hard time seeing (I think they do see, but wont admit) the facts.

It has been back and forth and certainly in the hands of Max and Lewis the nr 2 drivers of the other team stand no chance.

[i70q7m7ghw]

They did have a clear overhand in Austria, but that was fully lost at Silverstone

How do you explain the sprint race?

I think that made a lot clear. For me, for you, and dare I say it (yes I do) also for Lewis. The next day it stopped being a fair battle. I know you are his fan and I am Max and let's not go over that incident again because all has been said and then some but it certainly was "Rosberg" reminiscent. Lewis wanted and needed that victory and he got it. And now with this next bad luck moment yesterday (Bottas blundered) he is comfortably ahead (RBR will need to take another engine at some point, maybe even 2).

Just a clarification, I'm not really a fan of any 1 driver, I'm a fan of the sport. I have previously worked with teams like Red Bull & Lotus (now Alpine) so I am always interested to see how they are doing.

I think there's a lot of be positive about for Red Bull, the last two races have been fairly brutal, but I don't think that justifies the doom and gloom for the championship that we are seeing in this thread.

The Red Bull car is quick, and has been quicker than Mercedes at several races this year. Personally I'd say it's been quickest at the majority of races so far. I think the Red Bull team deserve some credit for that.

[Ryar]

Is that luck or skill that sees RBR having poor balance on revised Pirelli?

Pirelli has suitable technical reasons after all.

More apt is Pirelli's stupidity.

I do think that's a bit harsh; it is questionable whether the rather drastic change as such was needed, however. Yes, the crashes were bad, but the conditions also seemed extraordinary. There hadn't been problems in other races, and of course there was the discussion around pressures and all. Less impactful remedies may have been possible.
Regardless, what stands is that on-the-fly regulation changes have been mainly harming RB this season, the tire change seemingly the most impactful so far. But also the sudden change in allowed wing bending tolerances (based on subjective, visual notions in relation to very poorly written rules) and the proposed changes to pitstops (which seemed to address no practically encountered issue whatsoever) asymmetrically affect teams, and thereby potentially impact the championship fight. And that is just a completely undesirable situation.

Sorry, but 12 years of ridiculous period in F1, where talk was always about rubbish tyres. Is there another instance as such? They did a lousy job of preparing 2020 tyres which was outrightly rejected by teams and hence, 2019 tyres were used in 2020. So essentially, they had 2 years time for fixing sh** and yet, they came with rubbish tyres that required beefing up side walls. When was the last time F1 revised regulations to cut down downforce to help a tyre manufacture as they clearly knew, their tyres aren't good? Any time compounds are changed mid way through, has had serious implications on the pecking order and one team, invariably loses out. That is the standing evidence of Pirelli's rather inefficient job.

[Wouter]

Both Helmut Marko and Christian Horner have indicated that Max his Hungary's engine is also defective and that Max will probably start with a grid penalty at Spa.
They seem to have said this yesterday on Servus TV. Has anyone here seen this and can anyone confirm it?

[seense]

Horner told sky sports only checo's engine is probably gone. If that's also the case for max; Can they fit two new engines in one weekend and take the accumulated grid penalties in one weekend?

[SiLo]

Both Helmut Marko and Christian Horner have indicated that Max his Hungary's engine is also defective and that Max will probably start with a grid penalty at Spa.
They seem to have said this yesterday on Servus TV. Has anyone here seen this and can anyone confirm it?

If true that's very sad for him and the team. Considering his pace, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up either on the podium or 4th, which would be the best he could hope for on a normal weekend.

It is Spa though, so if it's wet he could well win the race.

[Alexf1]

Both Helmut Marko and Christian Horner have indicated that Max his Hungary's engine is also defective and that Max will probably start with a grid penalty at Spa.
They seem to have said this yesterday on Servus TV. Has anyone here seen this and can anyone confirm it?

That would be sad, on Sky I heard him say it was only 1 lap of overheating on Max car which was brought under control in time.