2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[i70q7m7ghw]

Both Helmut Marko and Christian Horner have indicated that Max his Hungary's engine is also defective and that Max will probably start with a grid penalty at Spa.
They seem to have said this yesterday on Servus TV. Has anyone here seen this and can anyone confirm it?

Horner said on SKY that Verstappens engine was fine, it only ran hot for 1 lap.

[Sieper]

but it is a risk, as was trying to run the silverstone unit. this is a real crap show.

[Sieper]

How do you explain the sprint race?

I think that made a lot clear. For me, for you, and dare I say it (yes I do) also for Lewis. The next day it stopped being a fair battle. I know you are his fan and I am Max and let's not go over that incident again because all has been said and then some but it certainly was "Rosberg" reminiscent. Lewis wanted and needed that victory and he got it. And now with this next bad luck moment yesterday (Bottas blundered) he is comfortably ahead (RBR will need to take another engine at some point, maybe even 2).

Just a clarification, I'm not really a fan of any 1 driver, I'm a fan of the sport. I have previously worked with teams like Red Bull & Lotus (now Alpine) so I am always interested to see how they are doing.

I think there's a lot of be positive about for Red Bull, the last two races have been fairly brutal, but I don't think that justifies the doom and gloom for the championship that we are seeing in this thread.

The Red Bull car is quick, and has been quicker than Mercedes at several races this year. Personally I'd say it's been quickest at the majority of races so far. I think the Red Bull team deserve some credit for that.

Hi Diesel, thanks for that, you are under no obligation to clarify your background but I really appreciate that. I am a fan to the point that it is sometime overly easy to think, hey that person said this or that so likely more in the Lewis camp (not that there need to be, or just 2, but a lot of people here are).

I agree very much with you that redbull needs to be given the credit for making a car that matches mercedes or even in the hands of Max outperforms the merc (even in the hands of Lewis) whicj is quite something as he is fantastic. I was very doubtful of that but after the silverstone sprint race a lot became clear, Max could stay out of reach there.

But then again, Maybe Lewis just gave up and planned his move for the actual race where there were 26 points on the table instead of 3. Lewis most definitely plays that game, Toto even said it, all is fair.

So now for the season all to play for but perhaps 2 engine penalties still to come and Lewis has already said (again, even after Silverstone) that Max needs to show him respect so another scenario like that is expected by me. Spa would be a great opportunity, iron is hot now and there are several corners where a little accident can happen. Especially in the first lap.

[DChemTech]

Both Helmut Marko and Christian Horner have indicated that Max his Hungary's engine is also defective and that Max will probably start with a grid penalty at Spa.
They seem to have said this yesterday on Servus TV. Has anyone here seen this and can anyone confirm it?

Horner said on SKY that Verstappens engine was fine, it only ran hot for 1 lap.

One or more Dutch F1 sites reported Horner was mentioning Max's PU was also screwed. But, in the race thread someone pointed out this was likely a translation/copy-paste error by said sites. Which seems plausible, the shunt wasn't that big. Anyway, I guess we'll see in the coming weeks what the status really is.

[maxxer]

Guess redbull is taking ideas from the batmobile for their 2022 car after being shunted from all sides all the time

[Wouter]

Both Helmut Marko and Christian Horner have indicated that Max his Hungary's engine is also defective and that Max will probably start with a grid penalty at Spa.
They seem to have said this yesterday on Servus TV. Has anyone here seen this and can anyone confirm it?

Horner said on SKY that Verstappens engine was fine, it only ran hot for 1 lap.

One or more Dutch F1 sites reported Horner was mentioning Max's PU was also screwed. But, in the race thread someone pointed out this was likely a translation/copy-paste error by said sites. Which seems plausible, the shunt wasn't that big. Anyway, I guess we'll see in the coming weeks what the status really is.

When I said it must have been a misunderstanding/translation error, someone from Austria said he had seen/heard them say this himself on Servus TV yesterday.

[DChemTech]

Horner said on SKY that Verstappens engine was fine, it only ran hot for 1 lap.

One or more Dutch F1 sites reported Horner was mentioning Max's PU was also screwed. But, in the race thread someone pointed out this was likely a translation/copy-paste error by said sites. Which seems plausible, the shunt wasn't that big. Anyway, I guess we'll see in the coming weeks what the status really is.

When I said it must have been a misunderstanding/translation error, someone from Austria said he had seen/heard them say this himself on Servus TV yesterday.

Check, thanks for clarifying.

[diffuser]

Since Silverstone, it has gone bigger. To me, that seems like RB has been hurt with the compound construction change. Classic 2019 scenario.

Is that luck or skill that sees RBR having poor balance on revised Pirelli?

Pirelli has suitable technical reasons after all.

More apt is Pirelli's stupidity.

RBR problem was that they couldn't get enough front DF to keep the car balanced. That resulted in them having to drop DF on the rear wing. That then compromised their pace. At a high DF track, you need all the DF you can get.

[Just_a_fan]

Is that luck or skill that sees RBR having poor balance on revised Pirelli?

Pirelli has suitable technical reasons after all.

More apt is Pirelli's stupidity.

RBR problem was that they couldn't get enough front DF to keep the car balanced. That resulted in them having to drop DF on the rear wing. That then compromised their pace. At a high DF track, you need all the DF you can get.

I think we'll see a different car at Spa. Not because they'll have upgraded it, but just because it's a circuit that doesn't need maximum downforce and so this problem won't rear its head.

I'm looking forward to Spa. Shame it's a month away...

[Ryar]

Is that luck or skill that sees RBR having poor balance on revised Pirelli?

Pirelli has suitable technical reasons after all.

More apt is Pirelli's stupidity.

RBR problem was that they couldn't get enough front DF to keep the car balanced. That resulted in them having to drop DF on the rear wing. That then compromised their pace. At a high DF track, you need all the DF you can get.

The "coincidence" is, they started having these problems with Pirelli introducing new construction compound. The car was on rails for 5 races before that. They may get it right and I hope they do, but it's just an undeniable "coincidence" that has suddenly put Mercedes ahead.

[diffuser]

More apt is Pirelli's stupidity.

RBR problem was that they couldn't get enough front DF to keep the car balanced. That resulted in them having to drop DF on the rear wing. That then compromised their pace. At a high DF track, you need all the DF you can get.

I think we'll see a different car at Spa. Not because they'll have upgraded it, but just because it's a circuit that doesn't need maximum downforce and so this problem won't rear its head.

I'm looking forward to Spa. Shame it's a month away...

agreed. The long straights at SPA allow for compromise.

[diffuser]

More apt is Pirelli's stupidity.

RBR problem was that they couldn't get enough front DF to keep the car balanced. That resulted in them having to drop DF on the rear wing. That then compromised their pace. At a high DF track, you need all the DF you can get.

The "coincidence" is, they started having these problems with Pirelli introducing new construction compound. The car was on rails for 5 races before that. They may get it right and I hope they do, but it's just an undeniable "coincidence" that has suddenly put Mercedes ahead.

I doubt very much that the rear tires have anything to do with a lack of Front Wing DF. The only thing I can think of is that the rear tires are better, allowing everyone to run more rear DF, hence, more over all DF. Except RBR can't generate the needed DF at the front to make use of it.

Either way I can't see how that's Pirelli's problem. They just made a tire that lasts longer. Many of the cars that struggled on rear limited tracks don't struggle as much any more.

[Ryar]

RBR problem was that they couldn't get enough front DF to keep the car balanced. That resulted in them having to drop DF on the rear wing. That then compromised their pace. At a high DF track, you need all the DF you can get.

The "coincidence" is, they started having these problems with Pirelli introducing new construction compound. The car was on rails for 5 races before that. They may get it right and I hope they do, but it's just an undeniable "coincidence" that has suddenly put Mercedes ahead.

I doubt very much that the rear tires have anything to do with a lack of Front Wing DF. The only thing I can think of is that the rear tires are better, allowing everyone to run more rear DF, hence, more over all DF. Except RBR can't generate the needed DF at the front to make use of it.

Either way I can't see how that's Pirelli's problem. They just made a tire that lasts longer. Many of the cars that struggled on rear limited tracks don't struggle as much any more.

Isn't that was the same explanation given in 2018 also? I am sure it's not Pirelli's problem either that the downforce was cut by 10% this year.

[godlameroso]

More apt is Pirelli's stupidity.

RBR problem was that they couldn't get enough front DF to keep the car balanced. That resulted in them having to drop DF on the rear wing. That then compromised their pace. At a high DF track, you need all the DF you can get.

The "coincidence" is, they started having these problems with Pirelli introducing new construction compound. The car was on rails for 5 races before that. They may get it right and I hope they do, but it's just an undeniable "coincidence" that has suddenly put Mercedes ahead.

Don't worry, remember the slap train Verstappen laid in the sprint race, the pace is still there. He likely would have cruised to victory at Silverstone, and would have given Hamilton the race of his life with a full car at Hungary.

We often focus so much on the negatives because they stick out like sore thumbs that we lose sight of the positives hidden in all this.

Had Verstappen stayed with Gasly he could have finished higher up. Doubt crept into the mind and threw a wrench in the plan. Had Verstappen ran his own race instead of reacting to Hamilton he could have salvaged a better result.

There's an important lesson here, and now Verstappen has a chance to learn long term strategy, how to deal better with inadvertent BoP. The mind is a powerful tool for reflection, had he been a bit more patient he could have moved up the order with an overcut like Perez did in Monaco. Perhaps salvaged a few more points. It's frustrating, but that energy from the frustration is not in vain. Incidents like these are good for long term memory formation which will only help in the future.

The Honda power unit is fine by the way.

Turkey is not a bad round to introduce a 4th power unit, there's a very nice long straight that should make overtaking not too impossible.

Introduce it in Turkey, break it in, keep it in the pool, use No.3 at Sochi, then you can run No.4 at Suzuka like normal.

An extra power unit in the pool may pay off later.

[diffuser]

The "coincidence" is, they started having these problems with Pirelli introducing new construction compound. The car was on rails for 5 races before that. They may get it right and I hope they do, but it's just an undeniable "coincidence" that has suddenly put Mercedes ahead.

I doubt very much that the rear tires have anything to do with a lack of Front Wing DF. The only thing I can think of is that the rear tires are better, allowing everyone to run more rear DF, hence, more over all DF. Except RBR can't generate the needed DF at the front to make use of it.

Either way I can't see how that's Pirelli's problem. They just made a tire that lasts longer. Many of the cars that struggled on rear limited tracks don't struggle as much any more.

Isn't that was the same explanation given in 2018 also? I am sure it's not Pirelli's problem either that the downforce was cut by 10% this year.

I'm not sure where you're going with all that. You trying to say Pirelli are in it to Help Merc Win?

The 10% drop was to try and keep the same tires before whole new tires in 2022(which were really gonna be used in 2021) but because of covid got pushed back. The way 10% drop was applied was what got Ferrari to drop their pursuit of AMR in Copy gate. I have my suspicions that when Ferrari saw that they backed off, It acknowledging that the regulation change was , kind of, targeting AMR. Lower rake cars would have a harder time adjusting to that change. Inadvertently, Merc got caught up in that, being the only other low rake car. When you actually design a car you're more likely to know how to resolve such an issue. Which is what happened. Personally I believed that Merc deserved a penalty, AMR didn't act alone. Anyways you could make an argument that the reg change helped RBR close the gap.