2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[El Scorchio]

unsafe release festival

I love that phrase! It was absolute chaos in the pits. I wonder if they decided there was so much of it that they'd end up basically penalising 3/4 of the field and making the race a complete farce so there was no point, or it was too much to unpick fully. However, you do make a good point about it and it shouldn't be a reason to skip penalties. Lack of consistency in rules and how they are applied yet again...

I think they need to stop with this "3/4 of the field did it so it's ok" thing. Especially on safety grounds. If there were multiple unsafe releases they needed to penalise all of them.

Definitely agree.

[SiLo]

I love that phrase! It was absolute chaos in the pits. I wonder if they decided there was so much of it that they'd end up basically penalising 3/4 of the field and making the race a complete farce so there was no point, or it was too much to unpick fully. However, you do make a good point about it and it shouldn't be a reason to skip penalties. Lack of consistency in rules and how they are applied yet again...

I think they need to stop with this "3/4 of the field did it so it's ok" thing. Especially on safety grounds. If there were multiple unsafe releases they needed to penalise all of them.

Definitely agree.

On top of that, how many people gained or lost places in the pits before the race technically started? Is that actually allowed? Russell had to give a bunch of places back but I don't remember anyone else doing it.

[Jolle]

I think they need to stop with this "3/4 of the field did it so it's ok" thing. Especially on safety grounds. If there were multiple unsafe releases they needed to penalise all of them.

Definitely agree.

On top of that, how many people gained or lost places in the pits before the race technically started? Is that actually allowed? Russell had to give a bunch of places back but I don't remember anyone else doing it.

Russell overtook other cars in the pitlane, that waited before the red light (because the cue of cars started next to his pitbox). He was lucky that he didn’t have to wait until he could normally rejoin the fast lane.

[RZS10]

That was what i wondered, he had to give back the places until he was in the position he entered the pits in, but theoretically he should have waited until there was a gap in the fast lane, so should have been last, because no one in the queue had the obligation to let him in - or am i missing something?
He tried to "cheat" his way to first, gave back a few places but was still further up than he would/should have been....

[Magicsenna_41]

Maybe Russell should have wait in his box until it's green and than full beans pit limiter applied of course. I think he would have gained or pipped a lot more cars legally.

[basti313]

That was what i wondered, he had to give back the places until he was in the position he entered the pits in, but theoretically he should have waited until there was a gap in the fast lane, so should have been last, because no one in the queue had the obligation to let him in - or am i missing something?
He tried to "cheat" his way to first, gave back a few places but was still further up than he would/should have been....

The more I read the rules, the more interesting this is:
- If a standing start is planned, everyone is actually obliged to go to his starting location.
"Once the safety car has entered the pit lane all cars, with the exception of those required to start from the pit lane, must return to the grid, take up their grid positions and follow the procedures set out in Article 36.109to 36.1413"

- You are allowed to overtake "delayed" cars, which also covers the wheel exchanges.

- Once a car is not "delayed" you are not allowed to overtake. In reality you can not say the cars waiting at pit exit are delayed, so it was wrong to drive by them. The right position was when Rus was moving again and as far as I can see it, the position would have been rather in front of Alo than behind.

[RZS10]

Ah, so he'd keep his position because they wouldn't be allowed to overtake.
I believe that Alonso got past Kimi, so he gave back the number of positions, not the positions to certain drivers, otherwise he would have had to also let Kimi through.

[SiLo]

That was what i wondered, he had to give back the places until he was in the position he entered the pits in, but theoretically he should have waited until there was a gap in the fast lane, so should have been last, because no one in the queue had the obligation to let him in - or am i missing something?
He tried to "cheat" his way to first, gave back a few places but was still further up than he would/should have been....

The more I read the rules, the more interesting this is:
- If a standing start is planned, everyone is actually obliged to go to his starting location.
"Once the safety car has entered the pit lane all cars, with the exception of those required to start from the pit lane, must return to the grid, take up their grid positions and follow the procedures set out in Article 36.109to 36.1413"

- You are allowed to overtake "delayed" cars, which also covers the wheel exchanges.

- Once a car is not "delayed" you are not allowed to overtake. In reality you can not say the cars waiting at pit exit are delayed, so it was wrong to drive by them. The right position was when Rus was moving again and as far as I can see it, the position would have been rather in front of Alo than behind.

Makes it sound like they should all have gone to their grid position rather than pit haha

[Magicsenna_41]

That was what i wondered, he had to give back the places until he was in the position he entered the pits in, but theoretically he should have waited until there was a gap in the fast lane, so should have been last, because no one in the queue had the obligation to let him in - or am i missing something?
He tried to "cheat" his way to first, gave back a few places but was still further up than he would/should have been....

The more I read the rules, the more interesting this is:
- If a standing start is planned, everyone is actually obliged to go to his starting location.
"Once the safety car has entered the pit lane all cars, with the exception of those required to start from the pit lane, must return to the grid, take up their grid positions and follow the procedures set out in Article 36.109to 36.1413"

- You are allowed to overtake "delayed" cars, which also covers the wheel exchanges.

- Once a car is not "delayed" you are not allowed to overtake. In reality you can not say the cars waiting at pit exit are delayed, so it was wrong to drive by them. The right position was when Rus was moving again and as far as I can see it, the position would have been rather in front of Alo than behind.

But only till the light turns to green at pit exit. Or not?
It should be allowed to overtake on green in the pits.
Unluckily the light turned to green once Russell arrived at pit exit and overtook all waiting in fast lane.

[ringo]

Ringo, you´re taking it the wrong way. Nobody is saying such a stupidity. Anyone claiming Hamilton does not know how to overtake will only expose himself.

The point is the contrary, Alonso was awesome holding Lewis back for that long because Lewis was almost 3 seconds a lap faster, and also because Lewis is one of the best overtakers, so what Alonso did was simply impressive. That´s all, none is bashing Hamilton, but praising Alonso. I hope that´s not a problem for you

Alonso and Hamilton to me is the true heir after shumacher. I rate both at the highest level. But as much as Lewis downplays his tyre wear and plays mind games Alonso also hypes himself and plays mind games. Theyre two sides to the same coin. He did a very great job defending but he knows its not puzzling why Lewis could not pass. They tyre advantage was not big enough. Second Alonso knows why he lost the championship in 2010. He could not overtake A Vitaly Petrov in a much much slower car in Abudahbi, an easier place to overtake.

Alonso is very good. supreme car control and unrelenting time attack skills. But his own hype is something that's hard for him to resist. I do not mind, i enjoy his sense of motivation and humour. But his defense was not an impossible defense.

The most impossible in recent memory is the duel in the desert with Lewis on old slower tyres and Nico on fresher tyres.

So a Mercedes with 5 laps old medium tires does not have enough tire advantage versus an Alpine with 15 laps old hard tires? Sorry but this is BS, that is a huge tire advantage even without considering the car advantage wich adds to this.

Okay then if what you are saying is true.. Then why did not Lewis have enough pace to be on Alonso's gearbox on the end of straight?
It's hard to beleive, but its just how it is. A tyre advantage enough to overtake Hamilton would not need any ERS tactics. He could just drive right up and pass like he did to sainz here or leclerc at silverstone. Instead Lewis had to try in turns 2 and 4 which is typical when the advantage is not sufficient to get enough traction out of the last corner to be on the gearbox at the end of the straight. Let's be realistic.

[ringo]

Comparison with Monaco is deceiving. Despite all that explanation, around 2 seconds advantage (I couldn't find a quote from Sky when they mentioned this) is all that is needed to pass a car in Hungaroring. That Mercedes car at that stage, had more than enough, accounting for both car's pace advantage plus tyres.

Well by that metric, Verstappen should have passed Mick much much earlier too given how much pace advantage the Red Bull had over the Haas even with the damage to his car. After a lap and a half from his pass he was already 3+ secs ahead of Mick.

Why are you talking sense?
Verstappen doesnt make mistakes!!
Let's ask the legendary Mick how he was able to keep a 3 second per lap faster Max behind.

[Roo]

Comparison with Monaco is deceiving. Despite all that explanation, around 2 seconds advantage (I couldn't find a quote from Sky when they mentioned this) is all that is needed to pass a car in Hungaroring. That Mercedes car at that stage, had more than enough, accounting for both car's pace advantage plus tyres.

Well by that metric, Verstappen should have passed Mick much much earlier too given how much pace advantage the Red Bull had over the Haas even with the damage to his car. After a lap and a half from his pass he was already 3+ secs ahead of Mick.

Why are you talking sense?
Verstappen doesnt make mistakes!!
Let's ask the legendary Mick how he was able to keep a 3 second per lap faster Max behind.

Ryar could have done a 30 second search on a search engine and seen in on the F1 website. It's not rocket science using a search engine.

[Magicsenna_41]

Seems that summer break will be interesting especially on the engine side.
Both contenders accussing each other of cheating. Wonder why Ferrari is in the mix of complaining...

[Phil]

Alonso was smart enough take advantage of those errors and make overtaking difficult with his own skills.

I find it a bit rich that Alonso seems to know how Lewis should have been driving those last few corners. He has zero know-how on how the Mercedes corners when following his car. Lewis is known for taking different lines when following drivers on such a track precisely to reduce the dirty air and the effect it has on the frontend of his car.

Considering Hamilton got pole and knows how to maximize laptime on this track, i find it laughable to suggest he was making mistakes in that sector. He was driving those corners differently and due to the effect of the dirty air.

[Sieper]

Comparison with Monaco is deceiving. Despite all that explanation, around 2 seconds advantage (I couldn't find a quote from Sky when they mentioned this) is all that is needed to pass a car in Hungaroring. That Mercedes car at that stage, had more than enough, accounting for both car's pace advantage plus tyres.

Well by that metric, Verstappen should have passed Mick much much earlier too given how much pace advantage the Red Bull had over the Haas even with the damage to his car. After a lap and a half from his pass he was already 3+ secs ahead of Mick.

Why are you talking sense?
Verstappen doesnt make mistakes!!
Let's ask the legendary Mick how he was able to keep a 3 second per lap faster Max behind.

Get a grip.