2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[flmkane]

Disclaimer: I'm sick of Lewis as a person and I think Max is a spoilt brat, but I also love watching them drive

With that said, I've been lucky enough to have seen a bit of of f1 since I was 9 years old and maybe I TRY to calm down some peeps.

Max is acting like 2011 Lewis. Fast. But hot-headed. There is no objective way to avoid that conclusion except with a strong filter of cognitive dissonance.

I think Max fans should realize that their boy is very very similar to Hamilton, aside from the skin color. Both drive fast, brake late and have great car control. Lewis has just done it longer and entered f1 in a far more developed state

If you cloned Lewis and put him in a Red Bull, you'd get Max. So for me, this is like watching Ham race a younger and hungrier version of himself.

Lets just watch the fun.

[flmkane]

One of the key things that makes people a champion, is knowing when to take risks and when to not.

What you say means either one of two thing; Ves should have avoided the risk to defend on the outside (not to take a risk), or Ham took the risk deliberately whilst knowing the possible consequences in that corner (to take a risk) ..

IMHO, this example really has nothing to do with whatever you try to state.

Logical fallacy. There were more than two possibilities.

For example Lewis should not have chosen to understeer into a fast corner after breaking waaaaay too late

Max shouldn't have aimed his car for a late apex that left literally zero space on the tarmac, when there was a car six inches to his right.

[Kingshark]

Max is the GOAT. 7 years no titles. Just 15 wins, mediocre teammates who were basically rookies. Lost twice to his best teammate; who is being whooped by Norris. Drives a traction and braking monster in the RB cars so looks are deceiving. Gets outqualified by Perez before who isn't great at qualifying and when he gets the setup right has same race pace as Max.
But despite thes facts. He is better than all.
We need to accept these facts and move on. Stop giving trouble Hamilton fans!

This is a Facebook level post. Embarrassing levels of trolling from a member who has over 7800 posts on here.

None of the cars that Verstappen drove from 2015-2020 were anywhere near WDC capable. Despite not winning a WDC in the early part of his career, Verstappen is still young and has his whole career ahead of him.

Verstappen “lost” to Ricciardo like how Hamilton was “outscored” by Button. Theoretically true, but you need to analyze those teammate battles deeper to get a true picture.

Verstappen’s qualifying record against Perez is far superior to Hamilton’s qualifying record against literally any teammate. Hamilton has never averaged half a second quicker than his teammate in qualy.

And lastly, literally nobody has called Verstappen the greatest of all time.

Why do you troll so much? Does it make you feel smart and clever? Or do you think that taking as many cheap shots as possible against a rival driver helps you “win” the argument?

[Kingshark]

What so funny about this debate about LH44 not being as good or as talented about other drivers, is what happened in the Grill The Grid competition. 50 yrs from now if all those other drivers who are considered better than LH44 win less titles than him, then motorsports fans of the future will just say LH44 is the GOAT. Just the way they said it about Fangio till Schumacher passed his title count. So if LH44 wins 8 titles or more , history will record him as the GOAT until some one passes that.
When ppl are talking about Fangio there is hardly a mention of his bad races if any, they did the same for Schumacher not, will do the same for Hamilton. So all who want to continuously talk about the bad races Hamilton has had needs to ensure that the driver who they are a fan of has more titles than LH44. Since they may not be treated as kindly in the future as we now treat Sir Sterling Moss.

Ayrton Senna was voted the greatest driver of all time by fellow racing drivers in 2009. At the time, Schumacher had 7 titles while Senna had 3.

If you think that everyone is just going to accept Hamilton as the GOAT because his numbers are larger than anyone else, then unfortunately you have an unpleasant surprise coming your way.

Dominant Mercedes, lost to Button, lost to Rosberg, failed to finish top 3 in the standings for five consecutive years. Plenty of ammunition available for those who are not Hamilton fans.

[Kingshark]

See Kingshark I said 50 years from now. also I said the fans not racing drivers who lived within 3 decades of another driver competing. So did the dominant Mercedes loose a championship or a race to Button? Cause if you talking championship Mercedes was not around talking race then as I have said LH44 has weakness an is not infallible. Also I and other Hamilton fans can find ammunition to use against any driver currently or have been on the grid within the last 30 years.

Who cares about what people in 50 years from now will think? We live in the present, we have the privilege of watching these drivers every week, therefore it makes perfect sense for us to debate and discuss them.

[DownShift Ninja]

Debate to your hearts content big man. Just that as in all things that go down in history the fine details get lost in the big numbers. So I am saying to LH44 fans be happy that the driver we like to watch have the big numbers. His faults or weaknesses don't overshadow them.

[NathanOlder]

What so funny about this debate about LH44 not being as good or as talented about other drivers, is what happened in the Grill The Grid competition. 50 yrs from now if all those other drivers who are considered better than LH44 win less titles than him, then motorsports fans of the future will just say LH44 is the GOAT. Just the way they said it about Fangio till Schumacher passed his title count. So if LH44 wins 8 titles or more , history will record him as the GOAT until some one passes that.
When ppl are talking about Fangio there is hardly a mention of his bad races if any, they did the same for Schumacher not, will do the same for Hamilton. So all who want to continuously talk about the bad races Hamilton has had needs to ensure that the driver who they are a fan of has more titles than LH44. Since they may not be treated as kindly in the future as we now treat Sir Sterling Moss.

Ayrton Senna was voted the greatest driver of all time by fellow racing drivers in 2009. At the time, Schumacher had 7 titles while Senna had 3.

If you think that everyone is just going to accept Hamilton as the GOAT because his numbers are larger than anyone else, then unfortunately you have an unpleasant surprise coming your way.

Dominant Mercedes, lost to Button, lost to Rosberg, failed to finish top 3 in the standings for five consecutive years. Plenty of ammunition available for those who are not Hamilton fans.

Hamilton gets tagged with the GOAT name for 1 reason,

in the 1 way that no one can argue with (statistics) Lewis is the GOAT. Everything else is an opinion. So the reason Lewis gets mentioned is because there is a completely valid reason for it.

As an example, there will be thousands of people (mostly Japanese) that will say Kobayashi is the GOAT. So when it comes to opinions, its not worth much at all.

Even driver opinions can only really be worthy when they speak of drivers they driven against. For example, I would take Maxi Gunthers opinion on Norris as being far more valuable than David Coulthards opinion.

[aral]

Please do not turn this thread into a fanboy dispute. The topic is the Hungarian GP, not about who is the best driver, or past championships etc.

[SiLo]

This is a Facebook level post.

This is the forum now the sport and this place have become more popular after the DTS series went out. A lot of the fans here are going to be way more casual than others, won't understand the nuances of the sport and are just passionate and want to support their driver.

[dans79]

One of the key things that makes people a champion, is knowing when to take risks and when to not.

What you say means either one of two thing; Ves should have avoided the risk to defend on the outside (not to take a risk), or Ham took the risk deliberately whilst knowing the possible consequences in that corner (to take a risk) ..

IMHO, this example really has nothing to do with whatever you try to state.

I'm not even referring to that incident. Turn 4 in Bahrain is a good example. If Max had waited half a lap, he would have been by with drs down the main strait. Imo his rush to overtake cost him that win.

[jurinius]

... Max fans attacking Lewis, Lewis fans defending him and vice versa. ...

The funny thing here is can we turn this statement around like 'Lewis fans attacking Max, Max fans defending him and vice versa'.

Who is defending and who is attacking, it depends of many factors

The new Discovery Channel show about "Alonso being a tactical altruist hero" is what I respect the most in this thread. I wonder how many episodes of the show we will have this season. Anyway it is admirable even Ocon is a believer, why don't we.

So the bit about "vice versa" passed you by then?

Really, my post was about as neutral as it was possible to be and you still found a made up thing to argue. That's great. But perhaps it's time to read and understand rather than skim and react.

If that can help you, my point was about the simple fact of using the verbs "attacking" and "defending" but You stick on that "vice versa" from what I am too far from

And FYI I ain't the guy who will revert all the forum looking for a post in opposite about my opinion. Lets take a cool break.

[langedweil]

One of the key things that makes people a champion, is knowing when to take risks and when to not.

What you say means either one of two thing; Ves should have avoided the risk to defend on the outside (not to take a risk), or Ham took the risk deliberately whilst knowing the possible consequences in that corner (to take a risk) ..

IMHO, this example really has nothing to do with whatever you try to state.

Logical fallacy. There were more than two possibilities.

And yet you state the same ..

[langedweil]

One of the key things that makes people a champion, is knowing when to take risks and when to not.

What you say means either one of two thing; Ves should have avoided the risk to defend on the outside (not to take a risk), or Ham took the risk deliberately whilst knowing the possible consequences in that corner (to take a risk) ..

IMHO, this example really has nothing to do with whatever you try to state.

I'm not even referring to that incident. Turn 4 in Bahrain is a good example. If Max had waited half a lap, he would have been by with drs down the main strait. Imo his rush to overtake cost him that win.

Ok, well I guess I was lead by the question you were answering to.
Nevermind, the point remains basically the same.

As to your example of Bahrein, maybe you're right that patience would have helped. But knowing you're racing a 7x wdc, you also know there might be no more chances to followup. As we kinda saw, because after that he was not able anymore to get as close.

[GOAT]

in the 1 way that no one can argue with (statistics) Lewis is the GOAT. Everything else is an opinion.

.. it just shows that statistics don’t show the whole picture.

But if you live in a world only made out of statistics, you’re right- can’t argue with that.

The flip side is that any driver in a Mercedes would have become WDC past couple of 7 years.

.. and last but not least, as you can see, I am the GOAT.

[NathanOlder]

What you say means either one of two thing; Ves should have avoided the risk to defend on the outside (not to take a risk), or Ham took the risk deliberately whilst knowing the possible consequences in that corner (to take a risk) ..

IMHO, this example really has nothing to do with whatever you try to state.

I'm not even referring to that incident. Turn 4 in Bahrain is a good example. If Max had waited half a lap, he would have been by with drs down the main strait. Imo his rush to overtake cost him that win.

Ok, well I guess I was lead by the question you were answering to.
Nevermind, the point remains basically the same.

As to your example of Bahrein, maybe you're right that patience would have helped. But knowing you're racing a 7x wdc, you also know there might be no more chances to followup. As we kinda saw, because after that he was not able anymore to get as close.

I think it was Max's small mistake later on that lap that cost him another go. he run deep in to turn 13 I think it was then lost the chance and then the tyres were gone.