2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[NathanOlder]

in the 1 way that no one can argue with (statistics) Lewis is the GOAT. Everything else is an opinion.

.. it just shows that statistics don’t show the whole picture.

But if you live in a world only made out of statistics, you’re right- can’t argue with that.

The flip side is that any driver in a Mercedes would have become WDC past couple of 7 years.

.. and last but not least, as you can see, I am the GOAT.

Well there are 2 cars in each team, so that's just plain wrong.

also every single season has a best team/package. So 71 seasons in, only 2 men have been able to get 7 titles. So its not like everyone else haven't had the chance. Every year someone has the best car.

[Just_a_fan]

in the 1 way that no one can argue with (statistics) Lewis is the GOAT. Everything else is an opinion.

.. it just shows that statistics don’t show the whole picture.

But if you live in a world only made out of statistics, you’re right- can’t argue with that.

The flip side is that any driver in a Mercedes would have become WDC past couple of 7 years.

.. and last but not least, as you can see, I am the GOAT.

Well there are 2 cars in each team, so that's just plain wrong.

also every single season has a best team/package. So 71 seasons in, only 2 men have been able to get 7 titles. So its not like everyone else haven't had the chance. Every year someone has the best car.

And only 9 drivers have won a title in a car that didn't also win the constructors' title which puts in perspective the "it's the car" argument.

[Tiny73]

Seriously, let it go. There’s so many trying to denigrate Hamilton’s titles but the fastest drivers end up in the fastest cars (mostly).

It’s tragic trying to belittle Lewis’ achievements since the whole package has to come together, team, car, driver, race craft, luck, skill, percentage game. If “anyone” could win in those Mercedes cars then Nico and Valteri would have more titles, but they don’t.

Trying to elevate Max by denigrating Lewis does no one any favours and ends up in tribalism as we see.

Max may one day eclipse Lewis’ records, if he does it will almost certainly be in a car that is faster than those around him. Belittling what Lewis has achieved doesn’t make your argument for Max any stronger, in fact it weakens it significantly since Lewis is ahead in the WDC in a lesser car this year. Just enjoy the battle we’re being treated to by two very fast guys that are the class of the field right now.

[aral]

Come on guys. Can you stop this fanboy bickering. None of the latest comments have anything to do with the Hungarian GP. Do not destroy proper debate in this forum.

[hollus]

I think a small cool down period is in order.
Topic locked.

And opened again.
Remember to at least pretend to try to stay somewhere near possibly on topic.

No fights, please.

[Wouter]

Stewards have dimissed the right of review required by Aston Martin related to Vettel's disqualification.






https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/58152978

.

F1: Aston Martin denied right of review of Vettel's Hungarian GP disqualification

By Andrew Benson
Chief F1 writer

Aston Martin's claim for a right of review of Sebastian Vettel's disqualification from the Hungarian Grand Prix has been denied.

Vettel was disqualified from second place after his car was found to have less than the mandatory one litre of fuel required for post-race testing.

Aston submitted evidence showing that the lack of fuel was caused by a fuel-system failure that led to a leak.

But stewards ruled that this was "not relevant" to the disqualification.

Aston Martin have also lodged a separate appeal against the decision and have not yet said whether they intend to proceed with that process.

Vettel's second place would have been the team's best result of the season and would have significantly boosted Aston Martin's position in the constructors' championship, on which prize money is decided at the end of the year.

What happened in the hearing?
The stewards from the race meeting were reconvened on Monday to assess Aston Martin's new evidence.

The team have accepted that only 0.3 litres of fuel remained in the car after the race, a point it contested at the time as it had not then discovered the leak.

Stewards accepted that the evidence of a leak somewhere in the fuel system satisfied the requirement for "new" evidence, which is one of four separate criteria a team must satisfy for a right of review of the decision to be granted.

However, stewards said that the article in the F1 rules relevant to the case "unequivocally call for a remaining amount of one litre [of fuel] and does not allow any exceptions under which circumstances or for what reasons" less was available.

Therefore, the reason for the lack of fuel was deemed "not relevant" to the disqualification, and the team's case was rejected.

.
Announcement
Date 09.08.2021

FIA denies petition for right of review of Hungarian GP DSQ

https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... lification

[RZS10]

Trying to appeal a DSQ for not having 1L of fuel left in the car by providing proof that there was indeed not enough fuel left in the car is some genius level stuff.

[Ryar]

This wreaks of mischief! Who was to lose most with a successful appeal? A team that confidently goes for the review, then backs off saying it was wrong in the first place!

[maxxer]

Stewards have dimissed the right of review required by Aston Martin related to Vettel's disqualification.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8XaohKWQAg ... name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8Xao3GWUAg ... name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8XapLwXMAw ... ame=medium


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/58152978

.

F1: Aston Martin denied right of review of Vettel's Hungarian GP disqualification

By Andrew Benson
Chief F1 writer

Aston Martin's claim for a right of review of Sebastian Vettel's disqualification from the Hungarian Grand Prix has been denied.

Vettel was disqualified from second place after his car was found to have less than the mandatory one litre of fuel required for post-race testing.

Aston submitted evidence showing that the lack of fuel was caused by a fuel-system failure that led to a leak.

But stewards ruled that this was "not relevant" to the disqualification.

Aston Martin have also lodged a separate appeal against the decision and have not yet said whether they intend to proceed with that process.

Vettel's second place would have been the team's best result of the season and would have significantly boosted Aston Martin's position in the constructors' championship, on which prize money is decided at the end of the year.

What happened in the hearing?
The stewards from the race meeting were reconvened on Monday to assess Aston Martin's new evidence.

The team have accepted that only 0.3 litres of fuel remained in the car after the race, a point it contested at the time as it had not then discovered the leak.

Stewards accepted that the evidence of a leak somewhere in the fuel system satisfied the requirement for "new" evidence, which is one of four separate criteria a team must satisfy for a right of review of the decision to be granted.

However, stewards said that the article in the F1 rules relevant to the case "unequivocally call for a remaining amount of one litre [of fuel] and does not allow any exceptions under which circumstances or for what reasons" less was available.

Therefore, the reason for the lack of fuel was deemed "not relevant" to the disqualification, and the team's case was rejected.

.
Announcement
Date 09.08.2021

FIA denies petition for right of review of Hungarian GP DSQ

https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... lification

I thought the car was taken to france to get all the fuel out in the system ? has that not been done ?

[langedweil]

I'm not even referring to that incident. Turn 4 in Bahrain is a good example. If Max had waited half a lap, he would have been by with drs down the main strait. Imo his rush to overtake cost him that win.

Ok, well I guess I was lead by the question you were answering to.
Nevermind, the point remains basically the same.

As to your example of Bahrein, maybe you're right that patience would have helped. But knowing you're racing a 7x wdc, you also know there might be no more chances to followup. As we kinda saw, because after that he was not able anymore to get as close.

I think it was Max's small mistake later on that lap that cost him another go. he run deep in to turn 13 I think it was then lost the chance and then the tyres were gone.

That's true as well, but that just adds to the same point; against guys like Lewis or Max you cannot be sure there will be a second opportunity, especially when no hige overspeed is available (as this in general, or in other years for example with a better tire offset). That was most likely the exact same reason why Lewis was that agressive in Copse, as he knew that when still being behind at start/finish Max would run away ..

My point was solely that one cannot afford to take a breath and wait when the delta's are that small; Lewis used to have a huge power advantage (bigger delta), which allowed him more so to wait for the next lap ..

[bonjon1979]

Don’t think it matters where they take it, the rules are very clear that it needs to be able to be extracted at track side with no bodywork removal. It’s like pit lane speeding, you either did it or you didn’t. You can’t argue that the software setting the speed was slightly out and hope to get away with it

[piast9]

As far as I undersand they were convinced that the impossibility of draining more fuel must have been caused by some damage or malfunction and if they were allowed to repair that malfunction the remaining fuel would be extracted. Just like if the car is underweight during post-race scrutineering due to the damaged bodywork it may be repaired.

[ringo]

The tank leak only means they have a deffective car and so no mercy can be shown for that by the Stewards.
It's unfortunate but it cannot be trusted that the car was using legal fuel during the race without that sample being available. It's just one of those things lik minimum weight. It's a yes or a no.

[El Scorchio]

It's just really unfortunate for the team if there was some loss of fuel they can't account for. Especially for Vettel who drove a great race and did nothing wrong at all.

The only way I could see the appeal working was if there was some issue surrounding faulty FIA sensors or software which gave the team an inaccurate readout of the fuel situation. Anything other than that was surely a lost cause from the start. But they were just doing their due diligence by appealing. I'm sure any team would in that situation.

[F1NAC]

It's just really unfortunate for the team if there was some loss of fuel they can't account for. Especially for Vettel who drove a great race and did nothing wrong at all.

The only way I could see the appeal working was if there was some issue surrounding faulty FIA sensors or software which gave the team an inaccurate readout of the fuel situation. Anything other than that was surely a lost cause from the start. But they were just doing their due diligence by appealing. I'm sure any team would in that situation.

They probably calculated from sensor data the amount of fuel that went from fuel tank. And counted on the rest from total fuel capacity that didn't go through fuel sensor. But that rest leaked out.