Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

[J.A.W.]

What if you provide a source for your claims?

I do, but it seems you blithely ignore them, or denigrate them, emotively.

What if you actually checked/understood the source/links already provided?

The only link you provided is about infrasound affecting people, nothing about birds affected by blade vortex.

But I guess you will never provide a source for this, basically because its your own invention based on old problems solved decades ago with modern mills with big and slow moving blades

Seems your powers of guesswork* are as limited as your 'google fu' - Andres, as a seen below,
just scroll across to ~1:20 in to see an eagle fatally caught in a vortex, then struck dead,
then listen to an explanation how - "big slow" - vortex pressure changes affect bats, too:




* Really, were you unable to grasp the prop-scaling program, on the NASA site, I'd linked earlier?

[Just_a_fan]

GWPF are hardly an impartial group. They're very much in the camp that thinks ACC is a myth and are against the things that are suggested as needed to be done to mitigate it - including wind turbines. That's fine - we're allowed to hold differing views on things - but they're as biased against wind turbines as some green groups are biased towards them.

One can always find examples of something being bad if one wants to. Every human activity will adversely affect wild life of some type, after all.

[J.A.W.]

GWPF are hardly an impartial group. They're very much in the camp that thinks ACC is a myth and are against the things that are suggested as needed to be done to mitigate it - including wind turbines. That's fine - we're allowed to hold differing views on things - but they're as biased against wind turbines as some green groups are biased towards them.

One can always find examples of something being bad if one wants to. Every human activity will adversely affect wild life of some type, after all.

Never-the-less, all 'vested interests' aside, you can see the very real fluid dynamics in action,
& this meets the scientific criteria of predictable repeatability, reliably... even in Kalifornia

[Just_a_fan]

GWPF are hardly an impartial group. They're very much in the camp that thinks ACC is a myth and are against the things that are suggested as needed to be done to mitigate it - including wind turbines. That's fine - we're allowed to hold differing views on things - but they're as biased against wind turbines as some green groups are biased towards them.

One can always find examples of something being bad if one wants to. Every human activity will adversely affect wild life of some type, after all.

Never-the-less, all 'vested interests' aside, you can see the very real fluid dynamics in action,
& this meets the scientific criteria of predictable repeatability, reliably... even in Kalifornia

Yes, wind turbines aren't without their faults. And neither are fossil fuels and the devices they power. It's not much of an argument to say "we shouldn't do this because it's bad for X" whilst ignoring that the status quo is at least as bad and also has other bad side effects. Effectively the argument is "we should not use EVs because wind turbines can kill birds". The real counter to that, of course, is "well we shouldn't use cars at all as they kill several orders of magnitude more birds than wind turbines do". But that's going to end up with fisty-cuffs in the pub car park so best not go that way.

Much of the "they're bad for birds and bats" argument goes away with off shore wind turbines, of course, although not totally as no doubt some seagulls will be affected to a degree. Bats don't tend to live/hunt several miles from the shore so they'll be ok. Off shore turbines also gets around some of the NIMBY arguments.

The UK has the largest installed off shore capacity in the world (although the Chinese will probably overtake that figure in the next year or two as they are doing plenty of off shore installations now). We also have capacity to put a lot more in as we have a large expanse of shallow sea available to us.

I'd be happy to see the UK having a good mix of wind turbines, tidal turbines, solar, and nuclear. We could certainly cover our requirements that way, with the added back up of some gas turbines for "emergency" use if required.

[djos]

I wish the conservatives in Australia were half as forwards thinking as their UK cousins, instead in our federal government we have a bunch of corrupt, God bothering idiots who think that their imaginary friend won’t let humans destroy the planet and therefore think that being in bed with the fossil fuel industry is perfectly acceptable!

[proteus]

I wish the conservatives in Australia were half as forwards thinking as their UK cousins, instead in our federal government we have a bunch of corrupt, God bothering idiots who think that their imaginary friend won’t let humans destroy the planet and therefore think that being in bed with the fossil fuel industry is perfectly acceptable!

If humanity continues to grow in numbers at such monstrous rate, it wont make a lick of difference if we all drive electric cars and so on. We have a fundamental problem. In EU general opinion is that our poop doesnt stink and that we are so great and green and so on. But the truth is that all heavy and dirty industry is working for us in Asia and other places. Like the air doesnt circulate arround the planet. In 3rd world countries they are still dumping trash directly into rivers and sea and so on. And to me - an average paid guy the electric cars are just very expensive toys.

[Just_a_fan]

And to me - an average paid guy the electric cars are just very expensive toys.

And the same sentiment would have been heard 100 years ago about petrol cars. EVs will become cheaper and more commonplace and in 30-50 years people will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

[DChemTech]

I wish the conservatives in Australia were half as forwards thinking as their UK cousins, instead in our federal government we have a bunch of corrupt, God bothering idiots who think that their imaginary friend won’t let humans destroy the planet and therefore think that being in bed with the fossil fuel industry is perfectly acceptable!

If humanity continues to grow in numbers at such monstrous rate, it wont make a lick of difference if we all drive electric cars and so on. We have a fundamental problem. In EU general opinion is that our poop doesnt stink and that we are so great and green and so on. But the truth is that all heavy and dirty industry is working for us in Asia and other places. Like the air doesnt circulate arround the planet. In 3rd world countries they are still dumping trash directly into rivers and sea and so on. And to me - an average paid guy the electric cars are just very expensive toys.

There are a lot of problems with population growth, but the impact on climate is not the major one. The difference in per capita emissions between countries is much larger than the difference in growth rate... and there is a decent correlation between growth and welfare (and hence emissions): rich countries have low growth, poor countries have high (but low per capita emissions). Besides that, growth rate/population size is difficult to control (ethically)... the best, ethical method to control it, is to increase wealth. But the increase in emissions with current technology will, in that case, more than offset the reduction in emission due to lower population growth. When it comes to curbing emissions, we really need to do so by reducing the emissions of our lifestyle. Plastic waste etc. is another thing. Personally, I think we can best address that separately as well: there is no single solution to all our environmental problems.

[djos]

I wish the conservatives in Australia were half as forwards thinking as their UK cousins, instead in our federal government we have a bunch of corrupt, God bothering idiots who think that their imaginary friend won’t let humans destroy the planet and therefore think that being in bed with the fossil fuel industry is perfectly acceptable!

Global Warming / Climate Change is just another Money Making Scam...

Remember when Climate Billionare Al Core said in the 1980's that Manhatten will be 5 meters underwater in 2000...

Then in 2000 he said it would happen by 2012...

The planet will only be "saved" by the removel of the Corrupt Rich & Greedy Busniness Owners & their Politicians...

If you believe that, then I have a few bridges for sale!

[mclaren111]

I wish the conservatives in Australia were half as forwards thinking as their UK cousins, instead in our federal government we have a bunch of corrupt, God bothering idiots who think that their imaginary friend won’t let humans destroy the planet and therefore think that being in bed with the fossil fuel industry is perfectly acceptable!

Global Warming / Climate Change is just another Money Making Scam...

Remember when Climate Billionare Al Core said in the 1980's that Manhatten will be 5 meters underwater in 2000...

Then in 2000 he said it would happen by 2012...

The planet will only be "saved" by the removel of the Corrupt Rich & Greedy Busniness Owners & their Politicians...

If you believe that, then I have a few bridges for sale!

[djos]

Global Warming / Climate Change is just another Money Making Scam...

Remember when Climate Billionare Al Core said in the 1980's that Manhatten will be 5 meters underwater in 2000...

Then in 2000 he said it would happen by 2012...

The planet will only be "saved" by the removel of the Corrupt Rich & Greedy Busniness Owners & their Politicians...

If you believe that, then I have a few bridges for sale!

Btw, I do agree with your last paragraph, just not the other items.

[nzjrs]

And to me - an average paid guy the electric cars are just very expensive toys.

And the same sentiment would have been heard 100 years ago about petrol cars. EVs will become cheaper and more commonplace and in 30-50 years people will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

(I've gone on about this point before, wrt. what Viable means, and for whom)

An earnest answer to that could be the lower-middle class being further economically disadvantaged by being 'forced' to purchase a new vehicle every X years. 20 years isn't a long time on one hand, but it's at least a financially precarious phase of many peoples life.

I'm not in favour of people who own a Tesla as their second car mandating the people who have a 1985 Honda prelude to go out and purchase a new BWM hybrid/electric because '20 years ins't a long time when you think about it'.

[Just_a_fan]

Global Warming / Climate Change is just another Money Making Scam...

Remember when Climate Billionare Al Core said in the 1980's that Manhatten will be 5 meters underwater in 2000...

Then in 2000 he said it would happen by 2012...

The planet will only be "saved" by the removel of the Corrupt Rich & Greedy Busniness Owners & their Politicians...

If you believe that, then I have a few bridges for sale!

Predictions generally have error bars attached and the further forward the prediction, the greater the error range. Has Manhatten flooded? Nope. Are sea levels rising? Yes. Is that all down to human activity? Unlikely. Is some of it down to human activity. Possibly.

Is the world run by a few thousand power-hungry men? Oh yes.

[hollus]

And we are firmly in politics only territory for the last pages. With the local forum warming that follows (started already).
Remind me to re-open the thread in a couple of days or if someone has something on topic to post.

[hollus]

Re-opened, earlier than expected as some want to continue the discussion about sources of electricity.
No global or even national politics, thank you.