2021 Mclaren F1 Team

[the EDGE]

With the news that Ferrari will bring a PU update later in the season... where are Mercedes at regarding any updates? Have the already updated what they can?

Merc have said several times that they expect to make gains on the PU side this year.

I have no idea if they have already been realised in the past month or so, or if that even means upgrades, but in light of what Ferrari said I suspect it does, & I hope they’re still to come

The PU are locked down for the rest of the year. Only thing it can be it lubricants, fuel or software. I read that update and it sounded like mumbo jumbo to me. Only 1 more PU iteration left and that will be for the start of the 2022 year. After that it will only be reliability upgrades.

Well it turns out that’s not necessarily true, as Ferrari have shown

Each element of the Pu… ICE, turbo, ES, etc.) can be update once from last season to the end of this season

If Merc have not updated a part already then they can still do so too

Do you know what PU elements Merc upgraded over the winter break…?

Because I don’t

[mwillems]

Very detailed article.
"Andrea Stella, suggests the problem is Ricciardo is from the “opposite end” in terms of driving style"

So basically the car is the complete opposite of what Ric likes. No wonder he is struggling so much.

"Stella points out the lack of testing opportunities has made this problem harder to get on top of. Ricciardo had just a day-and-a-half in the car pre-season and since then has done his learning on race weekends."
"But this has to fit in with the usual work of the race weekend and can’t waste time doing needless experimentation"

So basically no time to test even on a race weekend. Ric sure has his work cut out for him. It is looking very unlikely he will be fully up to speed with this car until at least next year based on that article.

Its important to note that Seidl puts a grey blanket over when the car had this trait to make it harder to say that Carlos did it so why can't Danny.

There are definitely elements of protection and they may be true, or not. But you'll not see Carlos get involved, he's a gent. So we have to give him the benefit of the doubt in my mind and support his work for Mclaren.

Like I've said before, silver lining here is a huge boost of confidence for Lando who is going from strength to strength after beating a contender on fair terms.

A third year of being the second fastest driver would be tough.

I think Daniel will provide many benefits on and off the track so I'm good with where we are at.

None of this really matter anymore. McLaren seem to be slotted in for either 3ird or 4th in the championship, 2nd was never a possibility. Think they'll be happy with both.

With regards to the car's traits(how to drive it to get the most of it), they will NOT go forward. All new suspension (front and back) with no hydraulics and different wheelbase. The aero will be completely different, so both drivers will be starting from scratch.

Seidl states that it may be on the next car... so...

Lol

[djos]

Seems unlikely, full ground effects cars with Venturi tunnels and side side skirts generate downforce very differently to the current cars and should allow Daniel to trail brake through the corner the way he likes to without losing downforce.

I think Andreas is just playing down expectations because they don’t really know what to expect yet.

[mwillems]

Well we don't really know either way as we don't fully know why the transition causes the Mclaren these issues. The issue isn't really trail breaking either, by the looks of it it is simply carrying too much speed into the corner (that would otherwise feel natural) and not specifically trailbreaking through it.

In any case, it may not be important to yourselves, but it is to others. I for one and happy to have had confirmed what the issue is and find DRs struggles interesting, particularly when compared to how Lando is doing.

[Mclarensenna]

Seems unlikely, full ground effects cars with Venturi tunnels and side side skirts generate downforce very differently to the current cars and should allow Daniel to trail brake through the corner the way he likes to without losing downforce.

I think Andreas is just playing down expectations because they don’t really know what to expect yet.

yes i agree as next years cars will be very very different in terms of aero, mechanical grip and not to mention the new 18 inch wheels.
Combine that with input Ric will have given on next years car design which clearly helped Ric when giving input on the 2020 Renault where he took a big step forward versus 2019.
Combine that with 6 days of testing next year to adapt further instead of the 3 days testing this year.
Ric should come out of the box on race 1 very strong in 2022

[diffuser]

Its important to note that Seidl puts a grey blanket over when the car had this trait to make it harder to say that Carlos did it so why can't Danny.

There are definitely elements of protection and they may be true, or not. But you'll not see Carlos get involved, he's a gent. So we have to give him the benefit of the doubt in my mind and support his work for Mclaren.

Like I've said before, silver lining here is a huge boost of confidence for Lando who is going from strength to strength after beating a contender on fair terms.

A third year of being the second fastest driver would be tough.

I think Daniel will provide many benefits on and off the track so I'm good with where we are at.

None of this really matter anymore. McLaren seem to be slotted in for either 3ird or 4th in the championship, 2nd was never a possibility. Think they'll be happy with both.

With regards to the car's traits(how to drive it to get the most of it), they will NOT go forward. All new suspension (front and back) with no hydraulics and different wheelbase. The aero will be completely different, so both drivers will be starting from scratch.

Seidl states that it may be on the next car... so...

Lol

"Might" is one of those words that fits a 99% like hood of next years car handling like this years as well as a .01 % chance equally.

[mwillems]

None of this really matter anymore. McLaren seem to be slotted in for either 3ird or 4th in the championship, 2nd was never a possibility. Think they'll be happy with both.

With regards to the car's traits(how to drive it to get the most of it), they will NOT go forward. All new suspension (front and back) with no hydraulics and different wheelbase. The aero will be completely different, so both drivers will be starting from scratch.

Seidl states that it may be on the next car... so...

Lol

"Might" is one of those words that fits a 99% like hood of next years car handling like this years as well as a .01 % chance equally.

Yes you are right, so it might be relevant for next year. And since we are in a fight for third with a driver who can't master the car it is still relevant for me. I respect that the season is done for you, but I'm loving it

[adrianjordan]

Very detailed article.
"Andrea Stella, suggests the problem is Ricciardo is from the “opposite end” in terms of driving style"

So basically the car is the complete opposite of what Ric likes. No wonder he is struggling so much.

"Stella points out the lack of testing opportunities has made this problem harder to get on top of. Ricciardo had just a day-and-a-half in the car pre-season and since then has done his learning on race weekends."
"But this has to fit in with the usual work of the race weekend and can’t waste time doing needless experimentation"

So basically no time to test even on a race weekend. Ric sure has his work cut out for him. It is looking very unlikely he will be fully up to speed with this car until at least next year based on that article.

Its important to note that Seidl puts a grey blanket over when the car had this trait to make it harder to say that Carlos did it so why can't Danny.

There are definitely elements of protection and they may be true, or not. But you'll not see Carlos get involved, he's a gent. So we have to give him the benefit of the doubt in my mind and support his work for Mclaren.

Like I've said before, silver lining here is a huge boost of confidence for Lando who is going from strength to strength after beating a contender on fair terms.

A third year of being the second fastest driver would be tough.

I think Daniel will provide many benefits on and off the track so I'm good with where we are at.

None of this really matter anymore. McLaren seem to be slotted in for either 3ird or 4th in the championship, 2nd was never a possibility. Think they'll be happy with both.

With regards to the car's traits(how to drive it to get the most of it), they will NOT go forward. All new suspension (front and back) with no hydraulics and different wheelbase. The aero will be completely different, so both drivers will be starting from scratch.

In fact 4th has the advantage of more development time permitted next year under the new rules. So you could almost see it as win-win...

[diffuser]

Seidl states that it may be on the next car... so...

Lol

"Might" is one of those words that fits a 99% like hood of next years car handling like this years as well as a .01 % chance equally.

Yes you are right, so it might be relevant for next year. And since we are in a fight for third with a driver who can't master the car it is still relevant for me. I respect that the season is done for you, but I'm loving it

Not sure where you going with the "season is done for me". At any rate. How relevant will the 2nd half of 2021 have been if Dani out Quali's and out finishes Norris in the first 4 races next year?

I don't want to get into this Norris Against Daniel thing cause I like both drivers but How relevant is it that Norris has a better mastery of the 2021 McLaren when he had a 3 year head start ?

I do think it is a little worrisome that of all the drivers to have come to a new team this year, he is the last to have no caught on. I mean, he isn't on it yet.

[mwillems]

"Might" is one of those words that fits a 99% like hood of next years car handling like this years as well as a .01 % chance equally.

Yes you are right, so it might be relevant for next year. And since we are in a fight for third with a driver who can't master the car it is still relevant for me. I respect that the season is done for you, but I'm loving it

Not sure where you going with the "season is done for me". At any rate. How relevant will the 2nd half of 2021 have been if Dani out Quali's and out finishes Norris in the first 4 races next year?

I don't want to get into this Norris Against Daniel thing cause I like both drivers but How relevant is it that Norris has a better mastery of the 2021 McLaren when he had a 3 year head start ?

I do think it is a little worrisome that of all the drivers to have come to a new team this year, he is the last to have no caught on. I mean, he isn't on it yet.

You don't seem to be fussed about 3rd or 4th from your post and since we won't finish below 4th then the seasons kind of over, it seems. I am interested and having DR up to speed is going to push us forward. So that's my relevance, outside of that, Daniels problems interest me, so that's the other relevance to me.

" At any rate. How relevant will the 2nd half of 2021 have been if Dani out Quali's and out finishes Norris in the first 4 races next year? " - Less relevant than if Norris smashes him and Danny says he still can't get to grips with the car

[diffuser]

Yes you are right, so it might be relevant for next year. And since we are in a fight for third with a driver who can't master the car it is still relevant for me. I respect that the season is done for you, but I'm loving it

Not sure where you going with the "season is done for me". At any rate. How relevant will the 2nd half of 2021 have been if Dani out Quali's and out finishes Norris in the first 4 races next year?

I don't want to get into this Norris Against Daniel thing cause I like both drivers but How relevant is it that Norris has a better mastery of the 2021 McLaren when he had a 3 year head start ?

I do think it is a little worrisome that of all the drivers to have come to a new team this year, he is the last to have no caught on. I mean, he isn't on it yet.

You don't seem to be fussed about 3rd or 4th from your post and since we won't finish below 4th then the seasons kind of over, it seems. I am interested and having DR up to speed is going to push us forward. So that's my relevance, outside of that, Daniels problems interest me, so that's the other relevance to me.

" At any rate. How relevant will the 2nd half of 2021 have been if Dani out Quali's and out finishes Norris in the first 4 races next year? " - Less relevant than if Norris smashes him and Danny says he still can't get to grips with the car

[1m0bius1]

Wouldnt it be better to finish fourth? We get more wind tunnel time and that's probably more invaluable that a measly 5-6 m dollars in prize money.

[mclaren111]

Ferrari:

There’s significant investment going into infrastructure, including a new driver-in-loop simulator that’s due to play an active part in 2022 development after the summer break.

Is there any information as to when our simulator will be finished ??

[mwillems]

Wouldnt it be better to finish fourth? We get more wind tunnel time and that's probably more invaluable that a measly 5-6 m dollars in prize money.

Plus sponsorship bonus' and the kudos if being in the top 3, the morale for the team etc

Wind tunnel and CFD time between the two is about 2% different, so also a measly amount.
The team however have been pushing to get the car into great shape when they could have switched focus earlier, so I'd say they feel like 3rd is worth pushing for too.

Anyways, this is a whole different conversation to what I was making, which simply that Daniels Issues were not with his ability on the brakes or with his trailbraking, but his desire to carry more speed into the corner than others and not use the brakes lol

[Ground Effect]

I know it’s way way too early for this, but in the event Ricciardo doesn’t find his feet at McLaren, does Gasly look like a good option?