2021 Mclaren F1 Team

[Chicane]

Anybody who has interest in getting to the bottom of the issues Ricciardo is facing and why 2022 car will be continuation of current McLaren philosophy despite totally new regulations read the quotes from Stella. Some we have already read but some we haven't. Long read but a fascinating one.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-a ... t/6649364/

[the EDGE]

Anybody who has interest in getting to the bottom of the issues Ricciardo is facing and why 2022 car will be continuation of current McLaren philosophy despite totally new regulations read the quotes from Stella. Some we have already read but some we haven't. Long read but a fascinating one.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-a ... t/6649364/

I am confused, what part exactly do you think Points to McLaren saying the traits of the Mcl35 carrying over to the Mcl36

[billamend]

I don't want to say too much about these characteristics, because even if we are changing dramatically the technical regulations [for 2022], because this is so embedded, certainly at McLaren we have an objective of we want to improve some of these characteristics in the future. Because they might have to do with some of our methodological aspects.

[SmallSoldier]

Wouldnt it be better to finish fourth? We get more wind tunnel time and that's probably more invaluable that a measly 5-6 m dollars in prize money.

Plus sponsorship bonus' and the kudos if being in the top 3, the morale for the team etc

Wind tunnel and CFD time between the two is about 2% different, so also a measly amount.
The team however have been pushing to get the car into great shape when they could have switched focus earlier, so I'd say they feel like 3rd is worth pushing for too.

Anyways, this is a whole different conversation to what I was making, which simply that Daniels Issues were not with his ability on the brakes or with his trailbraking, but his desire to carry more speed into the corner than others and not use the brakes lol

But… I don’t think that’s what the telemetry was showing… In those corners were he has struggled compared to Lando, he was braking earlier and longer than Lando


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[mwillems]

Wouldnt it be better to finish fourth? We get more wind tunnel time and that's probably more invaluable that a measly 5-6 m dollars in prize money.

Plus sponsorship bonus' and the kudos if being in the top 3, the morale for the team etc

Wind tunnel and CFD time between the two is about 2% different, so also a measly amount.
The team however have been pushing to get the car into great shape when they could have switched focus earlier, so I'd say they feel like 3rd is worth pushing for too.

Anyways, this is a whole different conversation to what I was making, which simply that Daniels Issues were not with his ability on the brakes or with his trailbraking, but his desire to carry more speed into the corner than others and not use the brakes lol

But… I don’t think that’s what the telemetry was showing… In those corners were he has struggled compared to Lando, he was braking earlier and longer than Lando


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Yeah I saw your interpretation at the time, but following the overlaid videos you could see him scrubbing less speed.

[djos]

Anybody who has interest in getting to the bottom of the issues Ricciardo is facing and why 2022 car will be continuation of current McLaren philosophy despite totally new regulations read the quotes from Stella. Some we have already read but some we haven't. Long read but a fascinating one.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-a ... t/6649364/

When you see comments like this:

"Then what we realised pretty soon is that in doing so, when we achieve a decent level of aerodynamic efficiency of the car, what we kept is some characteristics of our car, which makes it relatively special to drive.

"And which in a way we see with the experience that Daniel is going through."

"He came from the opposite end in terms of how you would like to drive an F1 car," says Stella. "Our car requires some special adaptation, let's say.

"I think it's no secret that our car is good in high-speed corners for example. It may not be the best car when you have to roll speed in the corner, as another example.

It's little wonder Daniel is having issues, both Lando and Carlos joined in 2019 when McLaren basically started from scratch after McLaren found their car was actually a dog in 2018 when they switched to the Renault PU. So they got to grow with the car's characteristics and development.

Daniel has come in cold to a car that has radically different characteristics to the Renault and RedBull/TR cars he's driven in the past. All the current top cars seem to use the modern trail-brake through the corner approach to carry as much speed as possible (to I assume, keep the Aero generating as much DF as possible) vs the McLaren which seems to be built for the old school slow-in, fast-out philosophy.

PS, Daniel seems fine in the high-speed corners, it's the slow stuff that has been killing him and that matches the comments from Andreas.

[1m0bius1]

The issue is the Car has ZERO similarities to the previous Renault and RBR iterations. At Renault Dan was able to adapt quite quickly as they shared some characteristics. The McLaren is just a completely different philosophy.

I just don't understand why people keep shitting on Daniel. Carlos was destroyed by Hulkenberg and outscored him comfortably and thats also with a ridiculous amount of DNFs that he suffered. The same carlos who easily beat Lando.
Daniel came in and comfortably beat him ensuing this, his 2020 season was nothing short of amazing.

I dont see how Sainz is rated so highly on here. He was dismantled by the hulk and no one cares to give a two hoots about it.No one cares to mention how he couldnt "adapt" to the renault.

[bryanbrink]

This is very speculative, summer break speculation, but I'm interested to hear what others think.

• Both Daniel and Vettel did well and were competitive at Red Bull, and the car design there has been relatively consistent with the Newey influence.
  From Red Bull, Vettel went on to be somewhat competitive at Ferrari, but suddenly in 2019/20 he was nowhere compared to his new team mate LeClerc.
  Daniel took a little time to adjust to the Renault but eventually performed better than most expected in his final season there.
  Sainz and Norris grew with the new Mclaren design direction from their start at McLaren, always matching each other's performance relatively closely. The 2018 car was a dog and McLaren were clear that they were moving in a new direction at the time.
  Daniel's struggles at McLaren this year have been discussed in detail.
  Vettel leaves Ferrari and suddenly seems to have his mojo back at Aston Martin.
  Sainz goes to Ferrari and matches LeClerc's performance a lot quicker than most would have expected.

Could this imply that Ferrari, from 2019 also shifted their aero design philosophy and that it is also on "the other side" of the line like McLaren's. Could it be that Sainz was able to adapt to the Ferrari so quickly because the braking requirements are closer to McLarens? It is one explanation at least for what we have seen in the relative driver performances.

[Wouter]

[mwillems]

The issue is the Car has ZERO similarities to the previous Renault and RBR iterations. At Renault Dan was able to adapt quite quickly as they shared some characteristics. The McLaren is just a completely different philosophy.

I just don't understand why people keep shitting on Daniel. Carlos was destroyed by Hulkenberg and outscored him comfortably and thats also with a ridiculous amount of DNFs that he suffered. The same carlos who easily beat Lando.
Daniel came in and comfortably beat him ensuing this, his 2020 season was nothing short of amazing.

I dont see how Sainz is rated so highly on here. He was dismantled by the hulk and no one cares to give a two hoots about it.No one cares to mention how he couldnt "adapt" to the renault.

WHo was sh*tting on Daniel?

[mwillems]

9 Days until Spa, one of my all time favourite tracks. I've loved it since the very first season I watched F1.

It looks like a track that may give us a good opportunity to push Ferrari back. The long straights and high speed corners will hopefully suit our aero efficient and fast car.

As always, tyres to be a big factor in what happens next week and fingers crossed we can get them working really well.

[djos]

The issue is the Car has ZERO similarities to the previous Renault and RBR iterations. At Renault Dan was able to adapt quite quickly as they shared some characteristics. The McLaren is just a completely different philosophy.

I just don't understand why people keep shitting on Daniel. Carlos was destroyed by Hulkenberg and outscored him comfortably and thats also with a ridiculous amount of DNFs that he suffered. The same carlos who easily beat Lando.
Daniel came in and comfortably beat him ensuing this, his 2020 season was nothing short of amazing.

I dont see how Sainz is rated so highly on here. He was dismantled by the hulk and no one cares to give a two hoots about it.No one cares to mention how he couldnt "adapt" to the renault.

WHo was sh*tting on Daniel?

Quite a few ppl here were doing so.

[SmallSoldier]

The issue is the Car has ZERO similarities to the previous Renault and RBR iterations. At Renault Dan was able to adapt quite quickly as they shared some characteristics. The McLaren is just a completely different philosophy.

I just don't understand why people keep shitting on Daniel. Carlos was destroyed by Hulkenberg and outscored him comfortably and thats also with a ridiculous amount of DNFs that he suffered. The same carlos who easily beat Lando.
Daniel came in and comfortably beat him ensuing this, his 2020 season was nothing short of amazing.

I dont see how Sainz is rated so highly on here. He was dismantled by the hulk and no one cares to give a two hoots about it.No one cares to mention how he couldnt "adapt" to the renault.

WHo was sh*tting on Daniel?

Quite a few ppl here were doing so.

Pointing out the obvious, that is disappointing that Daniel is struggling as much as he is, isn’t “shitting” on Daniel.

Everyone wants for him to get up to speed and deliver what we know he is capable of… At the same time, he is proving that he is lacking the skill to adapt to a different car… He is not the first to change to a car that is very different to the one he used to drive, the greats have a tendency to adapt faster to the new / different equipment… Alonso is a great example, from driving a McLaren, staying off the grid for 2 years… He is arguably already on top of the Alpine… Vettel is already delivering for Aston Martin and Carlos is doing a great job not only after moving to Ferrari, but also with a very talented team mate as Leclerc.

Hopefully Daniel will get to grips with the car soon, the team needs him a little higher up the grid… And if for whatever reason the MCL36 shows similar characteristics to the MCL35M he needs to learn how to drive it this season.

At the end, McLaren will make the fastest car they can make, it is up to the drivers to extract the maximum out of it… The MCL35M is a fast car, faster than the MCL35 compared to the front of the grid, at least in Lando’s hands.


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[djos]

Pointing out the obvious, that is disappointing that Daniel is struggling as much as he is, isn’t “shitting” on Daniel.

This is the sort of thing I was referring to:

Red Bull made the right call with Verstappen and Mclaren made the wrong call with Ric. Hopefully they’ll learn from it for the future

[mwillems]

Pointing out the obvious, that is disappointing that Daniel is struggling as much as he is, isn’t “shitting” on Daniel.

This is the sort of thing I was referring to:

Red Bull made the right call with Verstappen and Mclaren made the wrong call with Ric. Hopefully they’ll learn from it for the future

It's just the odd one or two posts like that. nothing worth caring about. DR is clearly a great driver and I have no doubt that Horner was deeply disappointed to lose him. They haven't ever been able to really replace him so far.

SmallSoldier is right. You can look at this and say it is the car is hard to drive and that it's not really Daniels fault. But we pay him so much money because he is one of the best at extracting speed from a car, and we have a right to expect that he lives up to the demands, this isn't a charity or a popularity contest. He really needs to step up and deliver.

What struck me as curious is his statements is that he isn't belligerent and being too stubborn to change his style. I'd love to understand what is stopping him from making that adjustment, at least more than that he just can't read what the car is going to do next.