2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[basti313]

I thought the spending cap was already in place?

It is and it doesn’t differentiate if you’re working on this years car, next year or 2023. It’s what you spend in a season. You can’t “use” 2022 money in 2021 or something.

Yeah that's what I understood. Any extra time taken to develop the 2021 car will absolutely impact the 2022 development program unless it's managed incredibly well.

But this relates to a super clean CFD schedule. We also have development gaps, where running the experiment is sometimes inefficient. So this should also be the case in F1....they see a solution by the competition, they see where they strongly lack behind and then come quickly to a solution which you run in a squeezed in test. I do not think what was done by Merc or RB so far in development is super time and resource consuming.

[BassVirolla]

With spending caps in place for '21 and '22 there's no worries in keeping developing until last day of season.

All you are doing, including man hours, are allocated at 2021 spending cap.

2022 development is probably also at full steam, but only taking from the spending allowed for next year.

Edit: Saying in other words: More than probably, the big teams still have far more resources than what they could use under only one year spending cap.

I thought the spending cap was already in place?

It is and it doesn’t differentiate if you’re working on this years car, next year or 2023. It’s what you spend in a season. You can’t “use” 2022 money in 2021 or something.

Then, the development of the 2022 car can theoretically only start in 01/01/2022?

Or are you stating that the 2022 car is developed with 2021 money, and the 2023 car will start its development with the remainings of 2022 money?

I think it will be much easier to do a effective surveillance of the cap taking it by "projects" (as cars and effective seasons, more than "calendar" seasons).

I don't know how the cap is policed, nevertheless... I only try to understand, I'm not undermining any other opinion or fact.

And probably I'm strolling off topic...

[adrianjordan]

I thought the spending cap was already in place?

It is and it doesn’t differentiate if you’re working on this years car, next year or 2023. It’s what you spend in a season. You can’t “use” 2022 money in 2021 or something.

Then, the development of the 2022 car can theoretically only start in 01/01/2022?

Or are you stating that the 2022 car is developed with 2021 money, and the 2023 car will start its development with the remainings of 2022 money?

I think it will be much easier to do a effective surveillance of the cap taking it by "projects" (as cars and effective seasons, more than "calendar" seasons).

I don't know how the cap is policed, nevertheless... I only try to understand, I'm not undermining any other opinion or fact.

And probably I'm strolling off topic...

In a given season the team has a set budget. They have a set amount of CFD time. They have a set amount of Wind tunnel time. And so on.

That is what is policed.

They can spend that time on whatever they like - even recreating accidents at Silverstone if they like - but they can't borrow from the following season.

That is why seemingly every team except Red Bull has now switched all their focus to next season's car.

[BassVirolla]

It is and it doesn’t differentiate if you’re working on this years car, next year or 2023. It’s what you spend in a season. You can’t “use” 2022 money in 2021 or something.

Then, the development of the 2022 car can theoretically only start in 01/01/2022?

Or are you stating that the 2022 car is developed with 2021 money, and the 2023 car will start its development with the remainings of 2022 money?

I think it will be much easier to do a effective surveillance of the cap taking it by "projects" (as cars and effective seasons, more than "calendar" seasons).

I don't know how the cap is policed, nevertheless... I only try to understand, I'm not undermining any other opinion or fact.

And probably I'm strolling off topic...

In a given season the team has a set budget. They have a set amount of CFD time. They have a set amount of Wind tunnel time. And so on.

That is what is policed.

They can spend that time on whatever they like - even recreating accidents at Silverstone if they like - but they can't borrow from the following season.

That is why seemingly every team except Red Bull has now switched all their focus to next season's car.

Thank you very much for the clarification. So, they are spending with a calendar in a hand, and a bag of coins in the other.

[nzjrs]

Thank you very much for the clarification. So, they are spending with a calendar in a hand, and a bag of coins in the other.

If you have switched all resources to 2022 would you or would you not tell your competitors you have switched all your resources to 2022?

[Jolle]

I thought the spending cap was already in place?

It is and it doesn’t differentiate if you’re working on this years car, next year or 2023. It’s what you spend in a season. You can’t “use” 2022 money in 2021 or something.

Then, the development of the 2022 car can theoretically only start in 01/01/2022?

Or are you stating that the 2022 car is developed with 2021 money, and the 2023 car will start its development with the remainings of 2022 money?

I think it will be much easier to do a effective surveillance of the cap taking it by "projects" (as cars and effective seasons, more than "calendar" seasons).

I don't know how the cap is policed, nevertheless... I only try to understand, I'm not undermining any other opinion or fact.

And probably I'm strolling off topic...

No, the budgetcap for 2021 is for any and every work you do in 2021, whether it's for this years car, next years, already working on parts for 2023, whatever. The budget cap is not coupled to a car. So, now, any development of the 2021 car has to come from somewhere, for instance, the development of the 2022 car.

[BassVirolla]

Thank you very much for the clarification. So, they are spending with a calendar in a hand, and a bag of coins in the other.

If you have switched all resources to 2022 would you or would you not tell your competitors you have switched all your resources to 2022?

I think you'd better make them think that you are still spending in 2021... I suppose...

[Big Tea]

So if a company has student engineers in uni and they give them a problem with this specific combination of surfaces and variations in flow, and the answer is passed back to the team, that is not included of course because the actual car was not involved?

It probably would not give the ultimate result needed, but it could calve away a lot of the preliminary time required

[Jolle]

So if a company has student engineers in uni and they give them a problem with this specific combination of surfaces and variations in flow, and the answer is passed back to the team, that is not included of course because the actual car was not involved?

It probably would not give the ultimate result needed, but it could calve away a lot of the preliminary time required

There are many ways around the caps. But, they have been in place for years now and of course, teams stretched the letter or the regulation. But most importantly, it’s one of those rules the teams agreed with or even suggested.

With team buying parts of each other, you could, as Mercedes, let a team work on a brake duct at Aston Martin or as RedBull make Alpha Tauri design and build the gearboxes.

[hape]

So if a company has student engineers in uni and they give them a problem with this specific combination of surfaces and variations in flow, and the answer is passed back to the team, that is not included of course because the actual car was not involved?

It probably would not give the ultimate result needed, but it could calve away a lot of the preliminary time required

There are many ways around the caps. But, they have been in place for years now and of course, teams stretched the letter or the regulation. But most importantly, it’s one of those rules the teams agreed with or even suggested.

With team buying parts of each other, you could, as Mercedes, let a team work on a brake duct at Aston Martin or as RedBull make Alpha Tauri design and build the gearboxes.

I wonder how far you can stretch this.
How about creating a company called Bed Rull that happens to be very good at designing brake ducts for F1 and especially for Red Bull. They sell them, including the engineering costs, for €10 to Red Bull.
At the end of the year the company goes bankrupt and that’s it.

[Big Tea]

So if a company has student engineers in uni and they give them a problem with this specific combination of surfaces and variations in flow, and the answer is passed back to the team, that is not included of course because the actual car was not involved?

It probably would not give the ultimate result needed, but it could calve away a lot of the preliminary time required

There are many ways around the caps. But, they have been in place for years now and of course, teams stretched the letter or the regulation. But most importantly, it’s one of those rules the teams agreed with or even suggested.

With team buying parts of each other, you could, as Mercedes, let a team work on a brake duct at Aston Martin or as RedBull make Alpha Tauri design and build the gearboxes.

I wonder how far you can stretch this.
How about creating a company called Bed Rull that happens to be very good at designing brake ducts for F1 and especially for Red Bull. They sell them, including the engineering costs, for €10 to Red Bull.
At the end of the year the company goes bankrupt and that’s it.

I suspect that if the cost was that low it would 'rise an eyebrow' but if the company who made them was taken over by a subsidiary of red bull then... no cash changes hands

[Jolle]

So if a company has student engineers in uni and they give them a problem with this specific combination of surfaces and variations in flow, and the answer is passed back to the team, that is not included of course because the actual car was not involved?

It probably would not give the ultimate result needed, but it could calve away a lot of the preliminary time required

There are many ways around the caps. But, they have been in place for years now and of course, teams stretched the letter or the regulation. But most importantly, it’s one of those rules the teams agreed with or even suggested.

With team buying parts of each other, you could, as Mercedes, let a team work on a brake duct at Aston Martin or as RedBull make Alpha Tauri design and build the gearboxes.

I wonder how far you can stretch this.
How about creating a company called Bed Rull that happens to be very good at designing brake ducts for F1 and especially for Red Bull. They sell them, including the engineering costs, for €10 to Red Bull.
At the end of the year the company goes bankrupt and that’s it.

It’s not a new problem, CFD and windtunnel time are limited for quite some time, as far as we know, no teams had a slap on the wrist so far (but Ferrari/HAAS came close)

[Wouter]

Max can recently be admired on the building of his sponsor CarNext.com in Amsterdam.
Edit: It is in Breukelen, not far from Amsterdam.

[Wouter]

Perez is finally back after the summer break.

[Wouter]

50 RACES !



Max: ... These 50 races with Honda will always be special and well remembered when we look back. I think of course the first win with Honda will always be the most emotional memory during our time together and hopefully we can end this season on a high with them before they leave the sport. I have enjoyed working with Honda from the start. They have always been straight talking and delivered what we have expected. They spend a lot of time discussing everything with the Team and us as drivers which has been very important.