Silly season 2021-2022-2023

[NathanOlder]

After reading those predictions, I just started thinking about Mercedes and Le Mans. The Project one in the hypercar class for 2024, Lewis Nico and Bottas as the 3 drivers. Yes please.

[Zynerji]

After reading those predictions, I just started thinking about Mercedes and Le Mans. The Project one in the hypercar class for 2024, Lewis Nico and Bottas as the 3 drivers. Yes please.

Lewis, Nico and Russell would be a KILLER lineup!

[Manoah2u]

I could see the v10's coming back with synth fuels that are carbon neutral. It would tick ALL of the boxes then...

Who is going to build them? No road car manufacturer is doing that sort of engine anymore, which would mean a bespoke unit built by some third party supplier. Ferrari won't race an engine built by someone else and I can't see them wanting to make engines for the entire grid for the one obvious reason.

So, V10s aren't going to be coming back

First of all, no road manufacturer is doing a F1 V6T hybrid engine so that argument is empty.
Second, all F1 engines are bespoke units.
Third of all, perhaps take a look to the V8s, V10s and V12s still being build.
FCOL there are W12 engines and W16 engines.

Fourth of all, with F1 going for Synth fuels, this obviously will find it's way to the road. There is going to be an intended ban on the production of FOSSIL fuel engines as of about 2030 in a bunch of EU countries. AFAIK there won't be a ban on HYBRIDS. AND, if Synth fuels are able to replace FOSSIL fuels, as long as they're really carbon-neutral, then there is NO reason to believe that the world won't switch to synth fuel - including gas stations everywhere right now. It's relatively a simple transition, and it would mean no end to the still very usefull combustion engines.
Meaning full electric vehicles will not become dominant for quite some time still - they might even disappear again if synth fuel turns out to be the 'life saver', even though I think there's more to say for hybrid life.

SO, V10's definately CAN come back in a synth fuel version. Paired even as a hybrid if you wish.

Perhaps take a look into Gordon Murray's car and the engine it's got. Now imagine that with Synthetic fuel.
You honestly think that won't be relevant?

Please don't tell me you actually believe the Mercedes V6 turbo hybrids that are being used are even remotely compatible, relevant or linked to V6's in roadgoing Mercs.........If you think the V6TH's aren't bespoke, and think they're the same, then i guess you must believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus too.....

[Manoah2u]

After reading those predictions, I just started thinking about Mercedes and Le Mans. The Project one in the hypercar class for 2024, Lewis Nico and Bottas as the 3 drivers. Yes please.

Lewis, Nico and Russell would be a KILLER lineup!

Still the funniest of it all is,
Russell has been beaten by BOTH his F1 teammates despite all of his hype and glory.
Both by the one-armed bandit (Kubica), and the Latifi-man.

On a completely different note though:

Is there any chance that Mercedes would surprise us all and instead of Bottas or Russell,
could go with somebody completely else?

Vettel? Norris?

[Jolle]

After reading those predictions, I just started thinking about Mercedes and Le Mans. The Project one in the hypercar class for 2024, Lewis Nico and Bottas as the 3 drivers. Yes please.

Lewis, Nico and Russell would be a KILLER lineup!

Still the funniest of it all is,
Russell has been beaten by BOTH his F1 teammates despite all of his hype and glory.
Both by the one-armed bandit (Kubica), and the Latifi-man.

On a completely different note though:

Is there any chance that Mercedes would surprise us all and instead of Bottas or Russell,
could go with somebody completely else?

Vettel? Norris?

Only in a Netflix world.

[Just_a_fan]

I could see the v10's coming back with synth fuels that are carbon neutral. It would tick ALL of the boxes then...

Who is going to build them? No road car manufacturer is doing that sort of engine anymore, which would mean a bespoke unit built by some third party supplier. Ferrari won't race an engine built by someone else and I can't see them wanting to make engines for the entire grid for the one obvious reason.

So, V10s aren't going to be coming back

First of all, no road manufacturer is doing a F1 V6T hybrid engine so that argument is empty.
Second, all F1 engines are bespoke units.
Third of all, perhaps take a look to the V8s, V10s and V12s still being build.
FCOL there are W12 engines and W16 engines.

Fourth of all, with F1 going for Synth fuels, this obviously will find it's way to the road. There is going to be an intended ban on the production of FOSSIL fuel engines as of about 2030 in a bunch of EU countries. AFAIK there won't be a ban on HYBRIDS. AND, if Synth fuels are able to replace FOSSIL fuels, as long as they're really carbon-neutral, then there is NO reason to believe that the world won't switch to synth fuel - including gas stations everywhere right now. It's relatively a simple transition, and it would mean no end to the still very usefull combustion engines.
Meaning full electric vehicles will not become dominant for quite some time still - they might even disappear again if synth fuel turns out to be the 'life saver', even though I think there's more to say for hybrid life.

SO, V10's definately CAN come back in a synth fuel version. Paired even as a hybrid if you wish.

Perhaps take a look into Gordon Murray's car and the engine it's got. Now imagine that with Synthetic fuel.
You honestly think that won't be relevant?

Please don't tell me you actually believe the Mercedes V6 turbo hybrids that are being used are even remotely compatible, relevant or linked to V6's in roadgoing Mercs.........If you think the V6TH's aren't bespoke, and think they're the same, then i guess you must believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus too.....

Road car PUs are becoming smaller and more efficient. Large capacity NA engines don't have a market many places outside of the USA. Hybrids, usually with smaller capacity turbocharged petrol engines, are where cars are going these days, except where they are full EVs. Even sports car manufacturers are going that way in some degree or other.

Now, that's not to say that F1 is / should be road relevant but the reality is that F1 will only survive with several manufacturers making PUs. It's not going to go back to the days of the DFV where almost everyone other than Ferrari was running one engine.

F1, like it or not, has to exist in a world where the politics of the internal combustion engine are not in favour of big V8s, V10 or V12s. And F1 absolutely must live in accordance with those politics or it will find itself out in the cold.

Synthetic fuels might help, but they won't offset the political pressure. As time goes on, F1 - all motorsport that involves burning fuel - will become less socially acceptable. Going back to a grid full of screaming V10s will hasten that day's arrival. That's just simple reality.

And does anyone really believe that synthetic fuels are going to be able to power every car in the world? Really?

[Zynerji]

I don't own a v12.

That's EXACTLY WHY I WANT TO HEAR THEM ON TV.

[DChemTech]

I don't own a v12.

That's EXACTLY WHY I WANT TO HEAR THEM ON TV.

Fair. But then we have to accept that F1 is a spectacle series, and has no bearing on societal relevance of technology anymore. That's a choice F1 is facing. And if we go for spectacle, then in terms of emissions there's not really an emission argument to step away from petrol. On the grand scheme of things, the amount of fuel used by the cars is only a minute aspect of the overall impact. Using alternative fuels would be just to brush up the image - but at least one should be fair that this is not for some 'real world technology relevance'. There's no companies actively making 2nd generation biofuels anymore because they're too expensive, and synfuels require more energy to make than they deliver - you're better off using the energy for other means. But there's a whole thread on that elsewhere. Why did the silly season converge to this?

[El Scorchio]

I don't own a v12.

That's EXACTLY WHY I WANT TO HEAR THEM ON TV.

Fair. But then we have to accept that F1 is a spectacle series, and has no bearing on societal relevance of technology anymore. That's a choice F1 is facing. And if we go for spectacle, then in terms of emissions there's not really an emission argument to step away from petrol. On the grand scheme of things, the amount of fuel used by the cars is only a minute aspect of the overall impact. Using alternative fuels would be just to brush up the image - but at least one should be fair that this is not for some 'real world technology relevance'. There's no companies actively making 2nd generation biofuels anymore because they're too expensive, and synfuels require more energy to make than they deliver - you're better off using the energy for other means. But there's a whole thread on that elsewhere. Why did the silly season converge to this?

Because it’s silly season!

Seriously though, I agree on the off topic point, although this is an interesting read regardless of which thread it belongs on or May get moved to!

[El Scorchio]

After reading those predictions, I just started thinking about Mercedes and Le Mans. The Project one in the hypercar class for 2024, Lewis Nico and Bottas as the 3 drivers. Yes please.

Can you imagine the argument and politics about who gets to drive it over the line if they won?! Probably safest to say ‘Neither of you. Now grow up…’

Although what a coup/publicity stunt for Le Mans it would be having those two +1 in a Merc. It would smash all the viewing figures and generate so much interest in the race.

[NathanOlder]

After reading those predictions, I just started thinking about Mercedes and Le Mans. The Project one in the hypercar class for 2024, Lewis Nico and Bottas as the 3 drivers. Yes please.

Can you imagine the argument and politics about who gets to drive it over the line if they won?! Probably safest to say ‘Neither of you. Now grow up…’

Although what a coup/publicity stunt for Le Mans it would be having those two +1 in a Merc. It would smash all the viewing figures and generate so much interest in the race.

Yeah very much. How about Toto gets his act together and he becomes the 3rd driver!!! He gets to drive it over the line, no arguments.

[Big Tea]

After reading those predictions, I just started thinking about Mercedes and Le Mans. The Project one in the hypercar class for 2024, Lewis Nico and Bottas as the 3 drivers. Yes please.

Lewis, Nico and Russell would be a KILLER lineup!

Still the funniest of it all is,
Russell has been beaten by BOTH his F1 teammates despite all of his hype and glory.
Both by the one-armed bandit (Kubica), and the Latifi-man.

On a completely different note though:

Is there any chance that Mercedes would surprise us all and instead of Bottas or Russell,
could go with somebody completely else?

Vettel? Norris?

Max?

[DChemTech]

In other matters, why is the driver market so quiet during the long summer break this particular year?. Does it all depends on Mercedes/Williams' driver choices?. It's quite intriguing nonetheless.

I don't think there is much to change except that pair. So yeah, as long as there are no breakthroughs on that front...
The only other one that seems more or less certain is that it's time for Kimi to call it a day. But there seems to be no particular hurry there in terms of announcing a follow-up.
Of course, things may happen to Perez - but unless RB decides to swap mid-season again (which I don't expect), I do not anticipate any announcements before end of season.

[adrianjordan]

Anyway, this all belongs in it's own thread.

Back to silly season, do we think we'll see a Merc announcement this weekend?

[politburo]

Apparently RedBull have confirmed Perez for 2022. Talk about jumping the gun, they could have waited for Bottas/Russell.