Which still doesn't take away from the fact that LH had more than 2s speed in the dry vs Russel. He had much much inherent downforce in the car vs Russel. He had much better traction out of the corners.It was a superior car which was also quicker on the straight where he made tenths & his less wing was largely mitigated by having a much better car. It is not easy driving a crappy Williams in the rain even with more downforce !dans79 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2021, 05:32He and Williams had nothing to loose, while Lewis and Max are fighting for the tittle and have a lot to loose.Mr.S wrote: ↑02 Sep 2021, 05:25Throughout the lap, Russel took a much much narrow line over the curbs & you could see how he was managing the throttle & the wheelspin. In comparison Verstappen & Hamilton both had a much safer lap where they ran wide comparatively, avoided the curbs etc. It is not like Hamilton & Verstappen didn't have a Q3 Lap (they did) & would have been Top 5 anyways at the least. The difference between genius & foolish is success & Russel was successful & in a different level. He easily out-classed Hamilton & Verstappen to a large extent. Give him credit where it is due !
Williams gambled with a maximum downforces set-up, because even if they were wrong they would start well back out of the points like they normally do.
It was the same for George, he had everything to gain and almost nothing to loose. Even if he had a spin or minor crash he'd still start no worse than where he normally does.
If you put him in a good car, and in a title fight, I'd bet my next paycheck he doesn't attack the lap nearly as aggressively as he did.
Yea and when it doesn't work you loose championships, that's why drivers in contention to be champion pick the moments they are going to be aggressive. Being on the razors edge in a wet qualifying is a good way to throw a boat load of points out the window!Mr.S wrote: ↑02 Sep 2021, 05:42Your last sentence has been proved wrong time & again by F1 History. People within tight championship battles throughout the years have gone for crazy overtakes & insane laps. When it works out, we cheer them as brave & daring & genius. If it doesn't, we criticize it as irrational & illogical.
Your interpretation of Lewis' opinion is interesting. Please provide links to the quotes where he has said these things.Mr.S wrote: ↑02 Sep 2021, 05:20Hamilton made it clear wanted Bottas. Let us not make stuff up guys.kenshi_blind wrote: ↑01 Sep 2021, 12:54Mr.S wrote: ↑01 Sep 2021, 12:10Hamilton just shared a pic with his dog & tagged Russel. Next season will be interesting. He will be 37 @ the start of 22 season & 38 @ the start of 23 season. Can you see him in 2023 driving @ 39 when he will be almost 40 when 2023 ends? I don't know. So Mercedes have got Lewis for 2 years (unlikely more) & Russel who is 23 (who could stay for 15 years). What happens if they have a huge clash !
Also Verstappen's contract is up in 2023 when Lewis' contract winds down. And possibly Norris as well. So Mercedes could have Verstappen or Norris in 2024. Same with Gasly if they are looking for a strong No. 2 behind Russel. Leclerc is tied till 2024 with Ferrari & is unlikely to move.
Next season @ Mercedes will be fun. One can understand why Hamilton so desperately wants Bottas as his team-mate !
do you have anything based on facts to back this up ?
He said he preferred fighting against another team rival than say a Rosberg fight & that Bottas was good for the team spirit. He time & again went out of his way to say he preferred Bottas as his partner. Bottas said Lewis Hamilton directly told him that Lewis wants Bottas to stay.
LH said Bottas is the best team-mate & a lie he had (which is a joke considering he has Alonso, Rosberg & Button & all 3 are way better speed wise than Bottas). He defended Bottas more than once this season when Bottas got criticism (in a manner no team-mate would). Even after Russel's heroics in qualifying, he said his preference for Bottas hasn't changed & that he hoped Bottas would remain in his team. Hamilton had no business saying he prefers Bottas to Russel. He should said it was great to work with Bottas & it a Mercedes decision & he has no business in it !
Wolff about tension of Hamilton vs Russel “The big ones feel when a good guy is coming. And George is the next generation.”
Why do people make up so much nonsense about this race still ?
Mr.S wrote: ↑02 Sep 2021, 05:42
Which still doesn't take away from the fact that LH had more than 2s speed in the dry vs Russel. He had much much inherent downforce in the car vs Russel. He had much better traction out of the corners.It was a superior car which was also quicker on the straight where he made tenths & his less wing was largely mitigated by having a much better car. It is not easy driving a crappy Williams in the rain even with more downforce !
You do realise this exact same argument applies to Max vs George don't you?Mr.S wrote: ↑02 Sep 2021, 05:42
Which still doesn't take away from the fact that LH had more than 2s speed in the dry vs Russel. He had much much inherent downforce in the car vs Russel. He had much better traction out of the corners.It was a superior car which was also quicker on the straight where he made tenths & his less wing was largely mitigated by having a much better car. It is not easy driving a crappy Williams in the rain even with more downforce !
NathanOlder wrote: ↑02 Sep 2021, 09:54Why do people make up so much nonsense about this race still ?
He never spun, and he was ONLY IN FRONT because he didn't pit for wet/inters on a wet track!!!!
I bet you are one who believes Glock slowed down on purpose to let Lewis through.
He's fabricating his own alternate facts.adrianjordan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2021, 08:48Your interpretation of Lewis' opinion is interesting. Please provide links to the quotes where he has said these things.Mr.S wrote: ↑02 Sep 2021, 05:20Hamilton made it clear wanted Bottas. Let us not make stuff up guys.
He said he preferred fighting against another team rival than say a Rosberg fight & that Bottas was good for the team spirit. He time & again went out of his way to say he preferred Bottas as his partner. Bottas said Lewis Hamilton directly told him that Lewis wants Bottas to stay.
LH said Bottas is the best team-mate & a lie he had (which is a joke considering he has Alonso, Rosberg & Button & all 3 are way better speed wise than Bottas). He defended Bottas more than once this season when Bottas got criticism (in a manner no team-mate would). Even after Russel's heroics in qualifying, he said his preference for Bottas hasn't changed & that he hoped Bottas would remain in his team. Hamilton had no business saying he prefers Bottas to Russel. He should said it was great to work with Bottas & it a Mercedes decision & he has no business in it !
Wolff about tension of Hamilton vs Russel “The big ones feel when a good guy is coming. And George is the next generation.”
Agreed. Russell’s race performances vs latifi have been a lot closer than in qualifying . He rarely outclasses latifi in races when it comes to race pace, race craft etc...Marty_Y wrote: ↑01 Sep 2021, 03:31My only concern is he had to overtake because he qualified behind Bottas, admittedly it was less than 3 hundredths (0:53.403 Russell, against 0:53.377 Bottas) and he only had a limited amount of time in a car which didn't really fit his tall size and big feet.zibby43 wrote: ↑01 Sep 2021, 02:31Every other driver had to race that configuration that weekend, so that doesn’t really hold water in my mind. Went head-to-head with Bottas in equal machinery and I can remember George’s overtakes from that race. Can’t remember any from VB.
Just my opinion. We’ll see if it bears out in due time.
I'm not saying he won't be good but it's not a given that he will be better overall than Bottas is, don't get me wrong I think Russell is a very good driver with history in the lower formulas that confirms that but as you say time will tell.
Why are people so desperate to discredit Hamilton?Mr.S wrote: ↑02 Sep 2021, 05:33By this logic, Hamilton should'd have won in 2014 & 2015 as Rosberg had more reliability issues than him. And even the 2016 Championship win should have been a much bigger loss considering Hamilton took out Rosberg when he was leading. Russel is 3 years in the sport,much more experienced than Hamilton who bottled the 2007 championship & almost the 2008 (till Glock spun). And we have seen the top class, best of the best like Alonso, fumble when a new star rises. It has happened time & again.ringo wrote: ↑01 Sep 2021, 19:08Rosberg got beaten soundly for 3 years before AMG tried their best to let him have 1 championship. Let's not get into that story again. But Lewis knew who was better and so did Rosberg and it wasnt an issue. At most Lewis was annoyed about his reliability and the driver coachin that Nico recieved.
George will just be a new teammate and Lewid will get on at doing his work.
In fact George will be easier to beat for the first 2 years because of his youth and lack of experience. He will want to learn more from Lewis than start a war.
Also i dont think any driver on the grid has Hamilton's race pace or clean overtaking abilities. George would be trying to beat Lewis while also learning from him. Lewis will return to hiding his tricks; which he has tried to do with Nico and Bottas.
Anyways Hamilton had lost to Button on points over 3 years, barely squeezed past in 2012, got destroyed in 2011, tied with Alonso in 2007 & got beaten by Rosberg in 2016. I don't remember a Senna, Alonso or Schumacher level guy in their prime (not comeback in 40s) being beaten or drawing so many times with their team-mate.
With radical news rules in 2022, the cars will be more different that it has been in decades. The Pirelli tyres will also be different. Hamilton has absolutely no advantage except familiarity with Mercedes team. People are under-estimating the extent of 2022 rule changes - The way the car produces downforce & the way the tyres mesh with it will not be the same as 2021. Russel if he falls behind Hamilton will play a deligent No. 2 for 2022 (we have seen that he is a team-player). But will Hamilton play Russel's No.2 if he falls behind ?