2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[ringo]

Personally, I think Russel will have a rude awakening when he is finally measured against a known quantity. Battling team-mates like Latifi could have you believe you're top tier. Prior to that, Ricciardo has gone through that process (when beating Vettel, only to later encounter Verstappen and now Norris), Alonso (when encountering Lewis), Vettel (beating Webber & Kimi, then encountering Ricciardo and later Leclerc), Bottas, battling Massa and then encountering Lewis.

Not saying Lewis is the best, but I'm confident that Russel will only realize what he is up against when getting into that car next to the multiple world champion. My guess is that Russel is very good, but I am yet to be convinced he will be better than Bottas or Rosberg is/was. Both Bottas and Rosberg have beaten Lewis, but rarely and never consistently and convincingly over a season.

I'm nervous for this year, as I think it's going to be extremely close between Max and Lewis, but once this year is over, I'd say bring on the new challenge in new cars that hopefully will put even more focus on the drivers ability.

Agreed. Russel appears to very very good at qualifying but so was Bottas And Rosberg. All talented drivers. What they found challenging is that they were used to setting the car to be best in qualifying and it being good enough to race their teammates on Sunday. When it came to LH those drivers found that that way of setting up for the weekend could not work. They had to dial back their qualifying performance and find some middle ground that would allow them to have consistent pace on Sunday. Basically the problem is that Hamilton's race compromised setup was just as quick if not quicker than their qualy biased setup on Saturday. I don't think Lewis has made any of them wiser to this. But eventually they realize what's happening.
Russel may find himself in that completely new situation. His mr saturday setups just wont be good enough to mount a challenge.

As for this season.. Something tells me that Max will drop the ball. He will have a good run of wins.. but the ball will drop. Maybe Lewis may have some luck as i really dont think the W12 is up to the task to give Hamilton any kind of gap in points to control the lead.
The redbull is too strong and Max is very consistent each weekend.

[PlatinumZealot]

I just reviewed Russel's lap again & Verstappen's & Hamilton's as well. It is true that Russel ran more more downforce but that doesn't explain the lap. Hamilton was outclassed as was Bottas & you could argue Verstappen too given the Williams lost in the straight quite a lot & had in general much lower downforce in the dry vs RB or a Mercedes.

Russel's lap was one of the best qualifying laps in the last couple of decades. The lines that he took over the curb, how we managed the wheelspin coming out of the curbs were risky but incredibly wave & you can get it wrong, like Norris did in Q3. Otherwise maybe Norris got it right in Q1 & Q2 & could have been on pole. The final corner was the only one where Verstappen gained 2-3 tenths (not just that corner but exit out of that in the straight) otherwise pole would have been touch & go.

Throughout the lap, Russel took a much much narrow line over the curbs & you could see how he was managing the throttle & the wheelspin. In comparison Verstappen & Hamilton both had a much safer lap where they ran wide comparatively, avoided the curbs etc. It is not like Hamilton & Verstappen didn't have a Q3 Lap (they did) & would have been Top 5 anyways at the least. The difference between genius & foolish is success & Russel was successful & in a different level. He easily out-classed Hamilton & Verstappen to a large extent. Give him credit where it is due !

Russell is williams. This is the Mercedes thread. He made simple mistakes in sector 3 anyway. He allowed Max to steal pole.

[taperoo2k]

By this logic, Hamilton should'd have won in 2014 & 2015 as Rosberg had more reliability issues than him. And even the 2016 Championship win should have been a much bigger loss considering Hamilton took out Rosberg when he was leading. Russel is 3 years in the sport,much more experienced than Hamilton who bottled the 2007 championship & almost the 2008 (till Glock spun). And we have seen the top class, best of the best like Alonso, fumble when a new star rises. It has happened time & again.

Anyways Hamilton had lost to Button on points over 3 years, barely squeezed past in 2012, got destroyed in 2011, tied with Alonso in 2007 & got beaten by Rosberg in 2016. I don't remember a Senna, Alonso or Schumacher level guy in their prime (not comeback in 40s) being beaten or drawing so many times with their team-mate.

With radical news rules in 2022, the cars will be more different that it has been in decades. The Pirelli tyres will also be different. Hamilton has absolutely no advantage except familiarity with Mercedes team. People are under-estimating the extent of 2022 rule changes - The way the car produces downforce & the way the tyres mesh with it will not be the same as 2021. Russel if he falls behind Hamilton will play a deligent No. 2 for 2022 (we have seen that he is a team-player). But will Hamilton play Russel's No.2 if he falls behind ?

Why are people so desperate to discredit Hamilton?
I do not have the energy to waste time responding really. Because nothing you said is facts.

Combining F1 seasons is nonsense.

I will just respectfully say Okay then and let you see what you want to see.

In fact... You wont be the first or the last waiting on Hamilton's demise. I have seen it too many times on this forum over the years. So now you are saying he will not excel because of the 2022 regs? Okay, not the first time i have heard that. See 2009, 2014, etc etc. Keep hoping and wishing!

Worst driver ever, but somehow is lucky to break almost every F1 record and beat the best of the best; and will likely win 2021 championship in not the best car.

Enjoy the season Mr.S!!

He has the best car consistently for the season except perhaps Austria Double Header & Baku-Monaco. In all the other races, atleast on race pace he had a quicker car or at par with RB (You can argue RB doing better in qualifying because Mercedes couldn't heat their tyres on a lap & sometimes needed 2). And him & Bottas had punted Vertsappen out twice & he is barely ahead. Otherwise he would have been 50 points behind. Vertsappen has his number & he knows it.

I didn't call him worst driver. I said he isn't anywhere near Senna, Prost & Schumacher level. But I will rate him with Alonso & ahead of Rosberg, Button, Vettel, Raikkonen & Mika. He is definitely the most lucky or one of the most lucky in the last 10 years atleast !

Lewis is one of the most talented racing drivers I've ever seen, and I've been watching F1 since the late 80's. I find it incredibly dull when some try to reduce Lewis's achievements to luck or being in the best car. His one struck of luck was getting Ron Dennis to sign him up. If that hadn't happened ? Perhaps Lewis wouldn't have made it to F1. Enjoy the title fight between Lewis and Max, it has the makings of a classic drivers title fight. Perhaps almost as intense as Prost vs Senna. These kind of titles fights don't happen very often. And yes I do rate Verstappen highly, but like Lewis he has some fragilities when things aren't going his way. But so did Senna and Schumacher. They are only human after all.

As for Mercedes ? I'd put Russell in the car next season, I see little point in waiting. Bottas just hasn't got what it takes to race wheel to wheel with Verstappen.

[PlatinumZealot]

Lewis is wearing orange today. That's very smart marketing. hehe. The Dutch fanbase is huge at this point so I see why he wants to scoop up a few of them from the orange army.

[Just_a_fan]

And he was on pole, could have been a couple of tenths quicker even with less downforce than Russel but he didn't risk it.

How do you support such a statement? You think he thought "oh, I'll just go this fast and that will be enough"? After the first round of Q3 laps, Max was a second slower than Lewis. He would, therefore, have given everything to go as fast as possible as he had no idea that George was even in contention (George having not even run a lap in Q3 at that point).

So please stop making up stuff to make one driver look supreme and another rubbish, when the reality is that both were 2.5 seconds faster than their respective mates.

[Just_a_fan]

I just reviewed Russel's lap again & Verstappen's & Hamilton's as well. It is true that Russel ran more more downforce but that doesn't explain the lap. Hamilton was outclassed as was Bottas & you could argue Verstappen too given the Williams lost in the straight quite a lot & had in general much lower downforce in the dry vs RB or a Mercedes.

Russel's lap was one of the best qualifying laps in the last couple of decades. The lines that he took over the curb, how we managed the wheelspin coming out of the curbs were risky but incredibly wave & you can get it wrong, like Norris did in Q3. Otherwise maybe Norris got it right in Q1 & Q2 & could have been on pole. The final corner was the only one where Verstappen gained 2-3 tenths (not just that corner but exit out of that in the straight) otherwise pole would have been touch & go.

Throughout the lap, Russel took a much much narrow line over the curbs & you could see how he was managing the throttle & the wheelspin. In comparison Verstappen & Hamilton both had a much safer lap where they ran wide comparatively, avoided the curbs etc. It is not like Hamilton & Verstappen didn't have a Q3 Lap (they did) & would have been Top 5 anyways at the least. The difference between genius & foolish is success & Russel was successful & in a different level. He easily out-classed Hamilton & Verstappen to a large extent. Give him credit where it is due !

The lap really was down to downforce. Yes, George drove brilliantly and there are drivers on the grid that would not have been able to replicate that lap, but on a wet track downforce is king. Every car set up is a compromise between downforce and drag. On a dry track, drag losses become more important. ON a wet track, the downforce gains become more important. On a wet track, the downforce allows higher cornering speeds, better mid-speed traction, better braking.

Max and Lewis were comparable as they were running similar downforce levels, although it appeared that the Mercedes was running less still. If the race had been dry, Hamilton would have blown passed Russell and would have been all over Max on the Kemel and approaching Blanchimont / the Bus Stop.

On a wet track, higher downforce set ups are just better. Of course, the driver has to use that performance and George did that brilliantly.

[jjn9128]

I will point out. Just because a car has a bigger rear wing it doesn’t necessarily mean it has more downforce. I imagine the Williams with that big rear wing would have been equivalent to the merc’s and bull’s.

[214270]

I will point out. Just because a car has a bigger rear wing it doesn’t necessarily mean it has more downforce. I imagine the Williams with that big rear wing would have been equivalent to the merc’s and bull’s.

Presumably, you haven’t seen the comparisons vs. HAM in particular but even VER to a lesser extent? It’s quite obvious when you examine how the lap developed what’s what.

[zibby43]

I will point out. Just because a car has a bigger rear wing it doesn’t necessarily mean it has more downforce. I imagine the Williams with that big rear wing would have been equivalent to the merc’s and bull’s.

Very good point.

[NathanOlder]

I will point out. Just because a car has a bigger rear wing it doesn’t necessarily mean it has more downforce. I imagine the Williams with that big rear wing would have been equivalent to the merc’s and bull’s.

Presumably, you haven’t seen the comparisons vs. HAM in particular but even VER to a lesser extent? It’s quite obvious when you examine how the lap developed what’s what.

Indeed, and when they showed the speeds of each driver around pouhon Russell was well ahead on speed through that corner. So I am pretty sure George had more downforce.

[PlatinumZealot]

Here is Lewis inteview in Zandvoort. Body language is good. I think the car will be a beast.

[adrianjordan]

Hamilton just shared a pic with his dog & tagged Russel. Next season will be interesting. He will be 37 @ the start of 22 season & 38 @ the start of 23 season. Can you see him in 2023 driving @ 39 when he will be almost 40 when 2023 ends? I don't know. So Mercedes have got Lewis for 2 years (unlikely more) & Russel who is 23 (who could stay for 15 years). What happens if they have a huge clash !

Also Verstappen's contract is up in 2023 when Lewis' contract winds down. And possibly Norris as well. So Mercedes could have Verstappen or Norris in 2024. Same with Gasly if they are looking for a strong No. 2 behind Russel. Leclerc is tied till 2024 with Ferrari & is unlikely to move.

Next season @ Mercedes will be fun. One can understand why Hamilton so desperately wants Bottas as his team-mate !

do you have anything based on facts to back this up ?

Hamilton made it clear wanted Bottas. Let us not make stuff up guys.

He said he preferred fighting against another team rival than say a Rosberg fight & that Bottas was good for the team spirit. He time & again went out of his way to say he preferred Bottas as his partner. Bottas said Lewis Hamilton directly told him that Lewis wants Bottas to stay.

LH said Bottas is the best team-mate & a lie he had (which is a joke considering he has Alonso, Rosberg & Button & all 3 are way better speed wise than Bottas). He defended Bottas more than once this season when Bottas got criticism (in a manner no team-mate would). Even after Russel's heroics in qualifying, he said his preference for Bottas hasn't changed & that he hoped Bottas would remain in his team. Hamilton had no business saying he prefers Bottas to Russel. He should said it was great to work with Bottas & it a Mercedes decision & he has no business in it !

Wolff about tension of Hamilton vs Russel “The big ones feel when a good guy is coming. And George is the next generation.”

I notice you still haven't provided a single link to back up your statement...

He's one that contradicts it:

Dutch Grand Prix: Lewis Hamilton calls George Russell 'an incredibly talented driver' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/58371860

[PlatinumZealot]

Yup. Looks like he welcomes George to the team. Should be fun seeing how the light hearted George gets along with Lewis if he does indeed come in 2022.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-ham ... reception/

[zibby43]

I will point out. Just because a car has a bigger rear wing it doesn’t necessarily mean it has more downforce. I imagine the Williams with that big rear wing would have been equivalent to the merc’s and bull’s.

Presumably, you haven’t seen the comparisons vs. HAM in particular but even VER to a lesser extent? It’s quite obvious when you examine how the lap developed what’s what.

Indeed, and when they showed the speeds of each driver around pouhon Russell was well ahead on speed through that corner. So I am pretty sure George had more downforce.

Maybe carrying more wing, but the point I think he was trying to make was that, in general, the Williams is not going to be sniffing the Merc in terms of overall downforce, which is why it’s 1+ seconds off the pace in the dry despite the same PU.

And that relative lack of inherent conceptual downforce would’ve showed itself in the race, irrespective of weather conditions.

[NathanOlder]

Presumably, you haven’t seen the comparisons vs. HAM in particular but even VER to a lesser extent? It’s quite obvious when you examine how the lap developed what’s what.

Indeed, and when they showed the speeds of each driver around pouhon Russell was well ahead on speed through that corner. So I am pretty sure George had more downforce.

Maybe carrying more wing, but the point I think he was trying to make was that, in general, the Williams is not going to be sniffing the Merc in terms of overall downforce, which is why it’s 1+ seconds off the pace in the dry despite the same PU.

And that relative lack of inherent conceptual downforce would’ve showed itself in the race, irrespective of weather conditions.

Yeah most certainly , I understand the Mercedes is well ahead with downforce when the cars run similar amounts of wing, but the fact George was faster through most corners tells me the overall downforce that day the Williams had more.