Silly season 2021-2022-2023

[JordanMugen]

That was two years ago. Gasly is a better driver now.
Why do you think Marko and Horner a blocking him from returning to redbull?
He is fast, he is a team leader, he is now a race winner. Surely he is good enough. Or.. is he too good?

You can't be serious. Gasly is welcome to be the team leader at AlphaTauri and they will tailor the car to what we wants there because he is AT's best driver. But at Red Bull, it's up to Gasly to drive the existing car.

He will demand more from the team in terms of working with them to setup the car

That Gasly demanded too many changes to the car and provided conflicting feedback to Max is why the engineering department at Red Bull got fed up with Gasly in the first place! If he did that again, that is again not going to endear him to the Red Bull engineering department. Far from a radical transformation, that would be exactly the same outcome as before!

It's same for Albon at RB, it's same for Gasly at RB, it's the same for the Ricciardo at McLaren, it's the same for Vettel at Ferrari, it's even the same for Tsunoda at AT who doesn't like the car how Gasly likes it and gives opposite feedback. It's up to the second driver to duplicate the driving technique of the lead driver!

[JordanMugen]

Now they have a proven incredibly fast driver in the shape of Perez, but they still handle him like Max' puppet.

Tsunoda is yet another disappointment.

You call Perez a "puppet" yet Tsunoda is a disappointment? That doesn't make sense when they are in the same situation!

Tsonuda doesn't understand Gasly's feedback as what he feels in the car is the opposite, Tsunoda even said, "It seems like we aren't driving the same car". So Perez should get VIP treatment of a personally tailored car, yet Tsunoda with the same problem is just a disappointment!?

The same applies to Ricciardo too.

As always: it's up to the second driver to duplicate the data traces of the first driver. Teams are not going to reinvent the wheel when their lead driver is already quick in the existing car.

[Big Tea]

That was two years ago. Gasly is a better driver now.
Why do you think Marko and Horner a blocking him from returning to redbull?
He is fast, he is a team leader, he is now a race winner. Surely he is good enough. Or.. is he too good?

You can't be serious. Gasly is welcome to be the team leader at AlphaTauri and they will tailor the car to what we wants there because he is AT's best driver. But at Red Bull, it's up to Gasly to drive the existing car.

He will demand more from the team in terms of working with them to setup the car

That Gasly demanded too many changes to the car and provided conflicting feedback to Max is why the engineering department at Red Bull got fed up with Gasly in the first place! If he did that again, that is again not going to endear him to the Red Bull engineering department. Far from a radical transformation, that would be exactly the same outcome as before!

It's same for Albon at RB, it's same for Gasly at RB, it's the same for the Ricciardo at McLaren, it's the same for Vettel at Ferrari, it's even the same for Tsunoda at AT who doesn't like the car how Gasly likes it and gives opposite feedback. It's up to the second driver to duplicate the driving technique of the lead driver!

I don't think its so much the Gasly in the car that would concern then, but the Gasly in the garage office and media.
When he was taken to RBR from STR it was 'you come with us and behave' and Gasly of course accepted any bull (red or otherwise) to become a driver in a top team. He is now an experienced winning driver who knows he can get a good drive if RBR bomb him and will not be so compliant. He could cause huge upsets in the team just by a few 'casual' remarks to the media. This is not the meek, 'I will do anything for s top drive Mr Marco' they dealt with 2 years ago, he will want a fair crack of the whip tis time, and will let it be known if he does not get it

[JordanMugen]

he will want a fair crack of the whip tis time, and will let it be known if he does not get it

A fair crack of the whip is receiving exactly the same car to drive as Verstappen. Demanding tailored parts with different handling is really quite unreasonable. Some for instance are not cutting any slack to Tsunoda despite his driving style being very different to Gasly, and Tsunoda's struggling with the AT's handling. Same goes for Ricciardo, it's unreasonable to expect McLaren to design a different car for him -- fair treatment is getting the same car as a Norris.

I think it's absolutely untrue that Gasly, Albon or Perez are given deliberately inferior cars. Same for Vettel at Ferrari. They are given exactly the same car as the lead driver!

[Manoah2u]

I'll go further and say that RBR management have such a polarising effect on fans that it influences how fans think of any given driver.

I uses to absolutely dislike Vettel when he drove from RBR, but once he left the team we started to see more of him and in his last couple of seasons at Ferrari and this year at Aston especially, he has become one of my favourite drivers.

It makes me question the opinion I have of Max as well.

agreed.

Ever since 2014 my enjoyment of RBR has gone down quite a bit.
In Vettels RBR glory days, one had to look at things with a bit of balance,
as the success they had is similar to the Ferrari dominance and current Merc dominance,
it gets a bit boring and you start rooting for the competition.

The way things however dwindled down between RBR and Renault was really ugly.
Yes, Abiteboul is a toxic element and i'm glad he's gone and Renault/Alpine is able to finally flourish,
but that doesn't take away the awful position RBR had towards manufacturer that got them 4 consecutive WCC's and WDC's.

It's starting to look like RBR isn't that 'great happy family' and looks much more like a toxic family.
There are many signs of this, and it goes back all the way to Alguersuari and Bourdais for example, but definately doesn't exclude Webber.

I also must say that I have come to really enjoy Vettel by now. I think the Aston Martin environment is much better than both RBR and Ferrari (atleast under Binotto). I would be very interested to see Verstappen @ Aston Martin.

I think Verstappen's qualities are even 'blocked' by the RBR environment. I personally believe Max can grow to become a far more complete driver in a different environment. Ferrari under binotto is not the right place.
I would doubt Mercedes is the right place either.

Mclaren and Aston Martin to me are far better candidates for Max to really grow, and with Abiteboul gone Alpine likely too.

Max is too much of a product under RBR imho, and i would say @ Mclaren or Aston Martin, he gets to be himself and the driver that he is/can be instead of 'RedBull driver number 33'. Offcourse he's worth far too much for RBR to let go though.

For RIGHT NOW, he's at the right place in his chances to drive a decent car. If the rules wouldn't change next season, i would be inclined to say that RB probably would have an interesting car next season too but Mclaren is shouldering in right into the competition too.

I do feel though that RBR is giving it a last all-or-nothing effort with Max though.
If they don't manage to become WDC this or next season, i would not be surprised to see RBR unplug from F1 and just become a regular sponsor at best (like in the sauber days).

[Big Tea]

he will want a fair crack of the whip tis time, and will let it be known if he does not get it

A fair crack of the whip is receiving exactly the same car to drive as Verstappen. Demanding tailored parts with different handling is really quite unreasonable. Putting for instance are not cutting any slack to Tsunoda despite his driving style being very different to Gasly, and Tsunoda's struggling with the AT's handling. Same goes for Ricciardo, it's unreasonable to expect McLaren to design a different car for him -- fair treatment is getting the same car as a Norris.

I think it's absolutely untrue that Gasly, Albon or Perez are given deliberately inferior cars. Same for Vettel at Ferrari. They are given exactly the same car as the lead driver!

That's why I said not Gasly in the car. He will want a share of strategy and other things that make a good race position.

[JordanMugen]

I also must say that I have come to really enjoy Vettel by now. I think the Aston Martin environment is much better than both RBR and Ferrari (atleast under Binotto)

I strongly disagree. Ferrari under Binotto with Sainz and Leclerc is a very cohesive and supportive team with very, very talented drivers -- Sainz and Leclerc is a far better lineup than Vettel and Raikkonen. It is a really strong outfit, and Sainz or Leclerc have the support of the team if they crash, it's ok. Very good operation there.

Bit of a shame for Illot or Schumacher as there may not be an opportunity at Ferrari any time soon, but Alfa Romeo and HAAS are still solid teams.

Look how happy the Ferrari drivers are, I think that is one of the best team environments on the grid. Especially with Binotto there, so engineers and technicians know they will no longer be fired on a whim anymore. They can get stuck in to developing power units, chassis and aero and the like without unreasonable pressure for instant results.



The company cars are rather bella too!

[Manoah2u]

You call Perez a "puppet" yet Tsunoda is a disappointment? That doesn't make sense when they are in the same situation!

same situation?

they're not at all. Perez is a experienced driver whom has nothing to prove.
Tsunoda came in all hyped up as the next wonderkid that would blast into F1 and rank up results,
but he's not even doing anything mentionable. all he has been doing is cursing and underachieving.

Tsonuda doesn't understand Gasly's feedback as what he feels in the car is the opposite, Tsunoda even said, "It seems like we aren't driving the same car". So Perez should get VIP treatment of a personally tailored car, yet Tsunoda with the same problem is just a disappointment!?

where did you get that nonsense comment from, stop pulling things out of thin air as not me nor anybody even mentioned something like that.

Perez is a puppet to serve Max, that is all there's to it. No matter how good he is or isnt, that's what his role is.
Hes hired to be the barrichello to schumacher, the massa to alonso, the bottas to hamilton.

Tsunoda has been hyped up like crazy, and both Albon and Kvyat were sacrificed to give the 'hotshot contender' a chance and quite frankly he's greyer than Ericsson, Palmer and so on.
Yes, Tsunoda is disappointing. Especially since yet again RBR's 'driver academy' yet brings another sub-par driver.

But either way, how about you calm down a bit.

[JordanMugen]

Perez is a experienced driver whom has nothing to prove.

If Perez has nothing to prove why isn't he driving better? He has only qualified in his expected top 4 position a handful of times, and has also made a number of critical mistakes like spinning in Imola, spinning in the sprint race at Silverstone, going on the gravel in Austria and losing a top 4 position, and crashing on the reconaissance lap in Belgium.

Perez has the full support of Red Bull as seen by his contract extension, but the silly mistakes unbefitting a veteran still seem to be happening.

But either way, how about you calm down a bit.

Tsunoda has been hyped up like crazy, and both Albon and Kvyat were sacrificed to give the 'hotshot contender' a chance and quite frankly he's greyer than Ericsson, Palmer and so on.

Tsunoda is effectively a pay driver for Honda, so his position his safe, much like Latifi or Mazepin. After all Honda have placed many of their drivers in F1 over the years (Nakajima at Lotus for instance), and even started Super Aguri just to keep Sato in F1.

[DChemTech]

And gasly, albon were struggling just the same... which makes one get the feeling that it's more about the drivability. It seems it takes a specific drivinf style to get around, which is hard to adapt.

[Manoah2u]

If Perez has nothing to prove why isn't he driving better? He has only qualified in his expected top 4 position a handful of times, and has also made a number of critical mistakes like spinning in Imola, spinning in the sprint race at Silverstone, going on the gravel in Austria and losing a top 4 position, and crashing on the reconaissance lap in Belgium.

really, the reconaissance lap in Spa you hold against him?
Max has crashed his car before the start of the GP just by driving towards the grid, and it 'happens', but Perez should be criticized for an impossible situation?

he won the Baku GP, with a failing car.
he is 5th in the WDC with just 4 points shy of Bottas, who is experienced in his team and car.

very selective Perez bashing

Tsunoda is effectively a pay driver for Honda, so his position his safe, much like Latifi or Mazepin. After all Honda have placed many of their drivers in F1 over the years (Nakajima at Lotus for instance), and even started Super Aguri just to keep Sato in F1.

A pay driver for Honda?
Honda is pulling out of F1. It's a RBR/Alpha Tauri seat, not a Honda team and as such not a Honda seat.
His position isn't safe, and FAR from anything like Latifi, Mazepin or Stroll whose daddys all bought the teams.

Where are you inventing this total non-comparable and non-facts from?

Yes, it's likely Tsunoda is going to be @ Alpha Tauri for 2022. However, that has nothing to do with the fact that he's not doing what 'everybody' was expecting from him. He even had to move to Italy to bring some 'stability' or improvement, and even then it's not like he's wheeling in the results.
Gasly is carrying the entire AT team on his own.
He's not doing a single bit better than Albon was doing.

[ringo]

The redbull can be adapted to gasly and max. It's just that the team cannot be bothered to.
The second driver's duty is not to adapt to the first drivers setup. That is just made up nonsense.
Each driver duty is the get the car to where he can drive it the best from his ability.
We saw where Kimi got special steering racks and Lewis got special steering wheels and other has adjustments to the car for then to get the best out of it. Surely Gasly can be accomodated. But the team has no interest in Max having an equally fast teammate. And its not because it's Max. They have been doing this ever since. They do not want theur #1 drivee to be challenged and that's why Daniel was a liability to them.
If Gasly gets another go i am confident that if guven a voice in terms of the car's direction he will be a thorn in Max's side.

[codetower]

I'll go further and say that RBR management have such a polarising effect on fans that it influences how fans think of any given driver.

I uses to absolutely dislike Vettel when he drove from RBR, but once he left the team we started to see more of him and in his last couple of seasons at Ferrari and this year at Aston especially, he has become one of my favourite drivers.

It makes me question the opinion I have of Max as well.

agreed.

Ever since 2014 my enjoyment of RBR has gone down quite a bit.
In Vettels RBR glory days, one had to look at things with a bit of balance,
as the success they had is similar to the Ferrari dominance and current Merc dominance,
it gets a bit boring and you start rooting for the competition.

The way things however dwindled down between RBR and Renault was really ugly.
Yes, Abiteboul is a toxic element and i'm glad he's gone and Renault/Alpine is able to finally flourish,
but that doesn't take away the awful position RBR had towards manufacturer that got them 4 consecutive WCC's and WDC's.

It's starting to look like RBR isn't that 'great happy family' and looks much more like a toxic family.
There are many signs of this, and it goes back all the way to Alguersuari and Bourdais for example, but definately doesn't exclude Webber.

I also must say that I have come to really enjoy Vettel by now. I think the Aston Martin environment is much better than both RBR and Ferrari (atleast under Binotto). I would be very interested to see Verstappen @ Aston Martin.

I think Verstappen's qualities are even 'blocked' by the RBR environment. I personally believe Max can grow to become a far more complete driver in a different environment. Ferrari under binotto is not the right place.
I would doubt Mercedes is the right place either.

Mclaren and Aston Martin to me are far better candidates for Max to really grow, and with Abiteboul gone Alpine likely too.

Max is too much of a product under RBR imho, and i would say @ Mclaren or Aston Martin, he gets to be himself and the driver that he is/can be instead of 'RedBull driver number 33'. Offcourse he's worth far too much for RBR to let go though.

For RIGHT NOW, he's at the right place in his chances to drive a decent car. If the rules wouldn't change next season, i would be inclined to say that RB probably would have an interesting car next season too but Mclaren is shouldering in right into the competition too.

I do feel though that RBR is giving it a last all-or-nothing effort with Max though.
If they don't manage to become WDC this or next season, i would not be surprised to see RBR unplug from F1 and just become a regular sponsor at best (like in the sauber days).

I disagree with the assessment of the Binotto/Ferrari atmosphere. I think initially what happened with Vettel at Ferrari early on was more simple… Leclerc. Ferrari found a gem in Leclerc, and he became a favourite. Vettel maybe felt a little threatened, maybe a little under-appreciated, and his confidence likely took a small hit. I think by the end of Vettel’s last year at Ferrari things started to change. I think he left with a better relationship with Ferrari and definitely a better relationship and appreciation towards Leclerc.

I think Binotto’s management style is a bit refreshing at Ferrari compared to what we’ve had in the past, and I think it’s a bit underrated.

[i70q7m7ghw]

*shakes head* Latifi is not going anywhere, and there is no reason for Schumacher to switch from Haas to Alfa given he has a Haas contract.

There is plenty of reason. The Haas is the slowest car on the grid, the team is the most poorly funded, and Mazepin has been problematic. Mick has Ferrari backing to go elsewhere, and Alfa runs Ferrari engines.

[Zynerji]

I'll go further and say that RBR management have such a polarising effect on fans that it influences how fans think of any given driver.

I uses to absolutely dislike Vettel when he drove from RBR, but once he left the team we started to see more of him and in his last couple of seasons at Ferrari and this year at Aston especially, he has become one of my favourite drivers.

It makes me question the opinion I have of Max as well.

agreed.

Ever since 2014 my enjoyment of RBR has gone down quite a bit.
In Vettels RBR glory days, one had to look at things with a bit of balance,
as the success they had is similar to the Ferrari dominance and current Merc dominance,
it gets a bit boring and you start rooting for the competition.

The way things however dwindled down between RBR and Renault was really ugly.
Yes, Abiteboul is a toxic element and i'm glad he's gone and Renault/Alpine is able to finally flourish,
but that doesn't take away the awful position RBR had towards manufacturer that got them 4 consecutive WCC's and WDC's.

It's starting to look like RBR isn't that 'great happy family' and looks much more like a toxic family.
There are many signs of this, and it goes back all the way to Alguersuari and Bourdais for example, but definately doesn't exclude Webber.

I also must say that I have come to really enjoy Vettel by now. I think the Aston Martin environment is much better than both RBR and Ferrari (atleast under Binotto). I would be very interested to see Verstappen @ Aston Martin.

I think Verstappen's qualities are even 'blocked' by the RBR environment. I personally believe Max can grow to become a far more complete driver in a different environment. Ferrari under binotto is not the right place.
I would doubt Mercedes is the right place either.

Mclaren and Aston Martin to me are far better candidates for Max to really grow, and with Abiteboul gone Alpine likely too.

Max is too much of a product under RBR imho, and i would say @ Mclaren or Aston Martin, he gets to be himself and the driver that he is/can be instead of 'RedBull driver number 33'. Offcourse he's worth far too much for RBR to let go though.

For RIGHT NOW, he's at the right place in his chances to drive a decent car. If the rules wouldn't change next season, i would be inclined to say that RB probably would have an interesting car next season too but Mclaren is shouldering in right into the competition too.

I do feel though that RBR is giving it a last all-or-nothing effort with Max though.
If they don't manage to become WDC this or next season, i would not be surprised to see RBR unplug from F1 and just become a regular sponsor at best (like in the sauber days).

I disagree with the assessment of the Binotto/Ferrari atmosphere. I think initially what happened with Vettel at Ferrari early on was more simple… Leclerc. Ferrari found a gem in Leclerc, and he became a favourite. Vettel maybe felt a little threatened, maybe a little under-appreciated, and his confidence likely took a small hit. I think by the end of Vettel’s last year at Ferrari things started to change. I think he left with a better relationship with Ferrari and definitely a better relationship and appreciation towards Leclerc.

I think Binotto’s management style is a bit refreshing at Ferrari compared to what we’ve had in the past, and I think it’s a bit underrated.

See. And if I owned an F1 team today, it would be run by Arrivabene...