2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

[Mogster]

There's an experiment of frog where a frog was put in a box with a ceiling and frog keeps jumping to get out, but keeps hitting ceiling. Soon it's jump got limited to within the ceiling. After the ceiling was removed, the frog still jumps under the ceiling height. That's Bottas. It has become his psychology.

As it relates to F1, I propose we call this the “Barichello effect”.

Good one to be honest, Bottas have been always treated like what he is a 2nd driver.

You get treated like a 2nd driver when you qualify behind and then have less race pace than the other driver in your team. Why would it be otherwise.

[PlatinumZealot]

Did anyone notice that Bottas let Max past too easily? Great number two driver, huh? He should have done the dirty work in sector one, but noooo... Backing up Max? that didn't exist in Bottas' vocabulary. It is times like these when a LOYAL number 2 is needed (George are you listening?). Let's not even talk about the final stops. Bottas with his fastest lap was a blatant statement, in action if not in words, that he is not about to roll over. "Number 2 my bocht!" should be the subtitle of his race.

[DChemTech]

He was easily passed, yes.

But for the fastest lap, he did slow down 1.5s in the final sector (according to toto on Dutch TV.), so it was easy for hamilton to reclaim. If he were really serious, he could have made Lewis' life harder.

[WaikeCU]

What are you lot on about? There’s no such thing as 1st/2nd driver? I don’t think you watched F1 enough tbf. That concept has been in F1 for ages and every team does things differently.

Bottas did held Max up a bit. People think it’s very easy to defend with worn tires against a car on fresh tires.

[Unf]

Did anyone notice that Bottas let Max past too easily? Great number two driver, huh?

O_O

What are you talking about?
At the beginning of straight line, Max was like 0,1s behind Bottas. In DRS era, in that case, driver in front can do literally nothing to defend himself. It's no brainer.

[Big Tea]

I don't know why Bottas comes in for so much stick. Not just here but all corners.
To me he has done an almost perfect job, but the job seems to be changing. For the time he has been at Merc he has been the perfect 'wingman' and I do not intend that in a derogatory manor.

The perfect wingman is to take as many points as possible away from the competition and as few as possible from ,( at the risk of falling into the same groove myself), the Alpha driver.
There have been times when he perhaps could have finished better, or qualified better, or raced better, but if that was the case he would be pushing his own program and looking for an Apha drive for himself, with someone to do his job.

I really can not recall any wingman doing as good a job, except perhaps eddie irvine, and he was told what was going to happen by Ferrari and not left to his own devices.
Has Hamilton fallen by the wayside at any time I think Bottas would have been quite capable of picking up the cudgels and finishing the season in his stead.

Far from having him marked down as a poor driver, I see him as a big part in Hamilton and Mercedes championships.

(Yes, I know I am going to get lambasted for this, but I have to say it)

[JordanMugen]

I really thought this race was going to be a lot more exciting. The atmosphere seemed great, but the race itself was not that interesting. Dominating home win for 33 though, so the crowd got what they came for, I guess.

I heard there was going to be no overtaking and it was going to be like racing at a higher speed Monaco, so I was quite impressed there was some overtaking and side-by-side action -- the likes of which is impossible at Monaco.

[JordanMugen]

I don't know why Bottas comes in for so much stick. Not just here but all corners.

Because he's worse than Button and Rosberg -- indeed, quite a bit worse than Rosberg who he replaced. In terms of poles & wins per season Rosberg was far, far ahead of Bottas, despite Bottas racing vehicles of similar competitiveness. The signing of Russell will likely change that, which is most welcome.

Without checking the statistics, I believe in one season at Mercedes (being 2016) Rosberg achieved more race victories than Bottas has in his entire five seasons driving at Mercedes.

Gasly, Albon and Perez have all similarly received criticism for performing much worse than Ricciardo too. It's quite usual. Similarly, Ricciardo is criticised for performing worse than Norris.

Recall too that Kovalainen too received plenty of criticism. He performed worse than Alonso who he replaced, and worse than Button who replaced him.

[Big Tea]

I don't know why Bottas comes in for so much stick. Not just here but all corners.

Because he's worse than Button and Rosberg -- indeed, quite a bit worse than Rosberg who he replaced. In terms of poles & wins per season Rosberg was far, far ahead of Bottas, despite Bottas racing vehicles of similar competitiveness. The signing of Russell will likely change that, which is most welcome.

Gasly, Albon and Perez have all similarly received criticism for performing much worse than Ricciardo too. It's quite usual. Similarly, Ricciardo is criticised for performing worse than Norris.

Agreed, the dynamics have changed now and Merc need a hard racer in the other seat, but at what risk of taking points from Hamilton?

[DChemTech]

I don't know why Bottas comes in for so much stick. Not just here but all corners.

Because he's worse than Button and Rosberg -- indeed, quite a bit worse than Rosberg who he replaced. In terms of poles & wins per season Rosberg was far, far ahead of Bottas. The signing of Russell will likely change that, which is most welcome.

Yeah, but all that made Rosberg far from an ideal wingmate. They deliberately chose for a non-Rosberg, and he's performing at that. Sure, not his best season, in some other seasons he'd win when hamilton was not there (but in those seasons, the competition with other teams was less vigorous).

That said, he was not perfect today, he could have lined up his defense in the final sector a bit better and maybe hold max off for a lap or so. But he for sure was much more valuable for the team than Perez today.

[JordanMugen]

Yeah, but all that made Rosberg far from an ideal wingmate.

Or you could look at it that Hamilton was a rather poor wingmate to Rosberg, and didn't provide the proper WDC support to Nico.

Such actions like deliberately backing Rosberg into the pack when Rosberg is the WDC leader in the championship finale, is really not wingman material. Of course, Rosberg too played that game.

[Big Tea]

I don't know why Bottas comes in for so much stick. Not just here but all corners.

Because he's worse than Button and Rosberg -- indeed, quite a bit worse than Rosberg who he replaced. In terms of poles & wins per season Rosberg was far, far ahead of Bottas. The signing of Russell will likely change that, which is most welcome.

Yeah, but all that made Rosberg far from an ideal wingmate. They deliberately chose for a non-Rosberg, and he's performing at that. Sure, not his best season, in some other seasons he'd win when hamilton was not there (but in those seasons, the competition with other teams was less vigorous).

That said, he was not perfect today, he could have lined up his defense in the final sector a bit better and maybe hold max off for a lap or so. But he for sure was much more valuable for the team than Perez today.

I absolutely agree, but if he was 'a bit better' would he not be off looking to be a team leader somewhere else?

[JordanMugen]

I absolutely agree, but if he was 'a bit better' would he not be off looking to be a team leader somewhere else?

Nope. You always select the two best drivers available, a bit of competition is a good thing and the drivers, usually, welcome it. Leclerc + Sainz. Ricciardo + Verstappen. Button + Alonso. Rosberg + Hamilton. Hamilton + Button. Raikkonen + Montoya. Prost + Mansell. Prost + Senna. Lauda + Prost.

Of course Montoya didn't work out, but the idea was there. It was the same strategy executed effectively by McLaren with Hamilton + Button, Prost + Senna, and Lauda + Prost. Indeed, McLaren have also tried the same idea yet again with Norris + Ricciardo, though it's not quite working out. You can't be content to just sign a wingman for Norris, you sign the best driver you can find!

[DChemTech]

Yeah, but all that made Rosberg far from an ideal wingmate.

Or you could look at it that Hamilton was a rather poor wingmate to Rosberg, and didn't provide the proper WDC support to Nico.

Such actions like deliberately backing Rosberg into the pack when Rosberg is the WDC leader in the championship finale, is really not wingman material. Of course, Rosberg too played that game.

[Mogster]

Did anyone notice that Bottas let Max past too easily? Great number two driver, huh? He should have done the dirty work in sector one, but noooo... Backing up Max? that didn't exist in Bottas' vocabulary. It is times like these when a LOYAL number 2 is needed (George are you listening?). Let's not even talk about the final stops. Bottas with his fastest lap was a blatant statement, in action if not in words, that he is not about to roll over. "Number 2 my bocht!" should be the subtitle of his race.

Bottas had chewed up his tyres early like normal.