2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Gillian]

I can agree with most of that. I think what annoys me personally is that these arguments are always used to drag down the fantastic performance delivered by exceptional drivers. I saw it with Schumacher (pff people still feel the need to do that), you can see it with Hamilton and last few years you can see it with Verstappen.

I will let the topic rest now for me. Thank you for the nice discussion.

[godlameroso]

I think it's important to note that teams banding together politically will keep Mercedes from having too much influence. The question is, would the teams have done this if Mercedes had not been as aggressive in it's political moves. Credit to RBR for taking advantage of the situation and adapting to it for not just their own benefit, but for other teams as well.

There's no way that Red Bull are doing anything to benefit the other teams. Anything they do will be intended entirely for their own benefit.

Ferrari will be happy to see Mercedes pegged back, yes, but not if they are just replaced by Red Bull instead.

If Red Bull end up back as the team to beat as they were in the Vettel years, the other teams will very soon be vocal against them. There is no love lost between any of them.

Of course, they will want to benefit themselves first, that's natural. You're also correct that other teams want to see Mercedes pegged back. However there is no likelihood that the pecking order will change for this year, the RB16B and W12 can lap the field on the right track. Everyone now should have their eyes on next year, and so all teams will want the best circumstances possible for themselves. Considering that next year, the power units will be frozen, OEMs will likely be pulling out all the stops to have their power units in the best possible place, or to stop any other OEM from locking in an advantage until 2025 or 26.

If the aim of the new regulations is to give more people a chance to win, and put more emphasis on the human side of competition then power unit parity will go a long way to setting the stage.

The last race showed how intense a race can be if there is relative parity between teams, it emphasizes the human aspect more, the wins become more significant as a result. It's as Mr. Wolff says, you must bring your A game, that forces everyone in the organization to step their game up as a result. I think it's fine if a team dominates simply as a result of the strength of their organization.

[Wouter]

Watch and enjoy. With new material about the weekend.

[Just_a_fan]

If the aim of the new regulations is to give more people a chance to win, and put more emphasis on the human side of competition then power unit parity will go a long way to setting the stage.

The engine freeze regulations weren't about parity and the human side, they were purely to give Red Bull a chance to run the Honda engine once Honda left - that's why Horner was so adamant about implementing it. If not, Ferrari, Mercedes and possibly Renault would have developed their PUs and left Red Bull behind. No doubt behind-closed-doors discussions included threats to pull RBR and AT out of the championship if the PU wasn't frozen. That's the nature of F1, of course, and has been since day one. Ferrari have used the "we'll leave if you do / don't do X..." method on numerous occasions as we all remember.

It's nice to think that things are done for nice reasons, but the reality is that they're done for political reasons. The politics of the engine freeze was that without it, Red Bull would risk becoming a back marker team if the others developed their PUs and they, quite understandably, didn't want to play that game.

Now, Red Bull are working hard to try to prevent Mercedes developing their PU ahead of the freeze. That's what the complaint/query is about. Nothing else. It's "how do we keep Mercedes where they are relative to us in the PU stakes?".

I don't blame Red Bull, although I wish that they'd put the energy in to building a PU previously and we could enjoy seeing what these PUs could be developed in to. Now, we're going to see them essentially stop evolving for a few years, which is a shame from a technical perspective. But that's politics for you.

[El Scorchio]

I can agree with most of that. I think what annoys me personally is that these arguments are always used to drag down the fantastic performance delivered by exceptional drivers. I saw it with Schumacher (pff people still feel the need to do that), you can see it with Hamilton and last few years you can see it with Verstappen.

I will let the topic rest now for me. Thank you for the nice discussion.

Agree. The top guy will always get shot at hugely. Just the way it goes. People hate a serial winner. At the moment it's Hamilton. Should Verstappen become that for an extended period of time, sadly it'll start to happen to him too. I don't see why we can't just enjoy a nailbiter of a season! RBR are nailing it at the moment and its fantastic for the sport.

[godlameroso]

If the aim of the new regulations is to give more people a chance to win, and put more emphasis on the human side of competition then power unit parity will go a long way to setting the stage.

The engine freeze regulations weren't about parity and the human side, they were purely to give Red Bull a chance to run the Honda engine once Honda left - that's why Horner was so adamant about implementing it. If not, Ferrari, Mercedes and possibly Renault would have developed their PUs and left Red Bull behind. No doubt behind-closed-doors discussions included threats to pull RBR and AT out of the championship if the PU wasn't frozen. That's the nature of F1, of course, and has been since day one. Ferrari have used the "we'll leave if you do / don't do X..." method on numerous occasions as we all remember.

It's nice to think that things are done for nice reasons, but the reality is that they're done for political reasons. The politics of the engine freeze was that without it, Red Bull would risk becoming a back marker team if the others developed their PUs and they, quite understandably, didn't want to play that game.

Now, Red Bull are working hard to try to prevent Mercedes developing their PU ahead of the freeze. That's what the complaint/query is about. Nothing else. It's "how do we keep Mercedes where they are relative to us in the PU stakes?".

I don't blame Red Bull, although I wish that they'd put the energy in to building a PU previously and we could enjoy seeing what these PUs could be developed in to. Now, we're going to see them essentially stop evolving for a few years, which is a shame from a technical perspective. But that's politics for you.

No one is saying things are being done for nice reasons, however our allegiances will attempt to frame things in the best possible light, regardless of how dark the actions are. That is the nature of politics is it not?

For example, everyone in a sense does benefit from the PU freeze, because as we know, the resources that are required to have a development program are rather substantial. Slashing that budget and ensuring that the power units are at roughly a similar level will promote closer racing and make things more sustainable.

Using buzzwords like sustainable, evoke feelings of responsibility where none may exist, thus things are framed in a better light by such language.

The truth is more complex, and the changing nature of businesses and supply chains are also making extensive power unit development more difficult. Freezing power units is a double edged sword, it could also be framed that teams are willing to make that sacrifice because they believe they can make the difference with the chassis, and their team.

[Hammerfist]

I think you are confusing car design and car setup. Car setup is where driver preference matters, not car design. A car is not designed around the preferences of a driver. A well designed car can be setup to any driving style. What I call a myth is the fact cars are so customized for a single driver, others can not drive it. Exceptional drivers can adapt to more than average drivers (all relative, no F1 driver is average). The correlation that those drivers adapt and perform and others don't, means the car is build to cater to said driver... is wrong.

I disagree. A car can definitely be designed with a fundamental propensity for oversteer or understeer and the seup window will not change the fundamentals.

You can clearly see that this years mercedes car has a nervous rear end and merc still has not found a way around it. Its a design flaw. In the case of Redbull its clear to me that the car has handling characteristics that max likes and others dont. Horner finally admitted it but its something ive known for years.

[Gillian]

You disagree yet what you say proves my point. Mercedes has a nervous rear end and you call it a design flaw. I agree.

But then the nervousness of the Red Bull is apparently something max likes and others don't?

[etusch]

I disagree. A car can definitely be designed with a fundamental propensity for oversteer or understeer and the seup window will not change the fundamentals.

You can clearly see that this years mercedes car has a nervous rear end and merc still has not found a way around it. Its a design flaw. In the case of Redbull its clear to me that the car has handling characteristics that max likes and others dont. Horner finally admitted it but its something ive known for years.

When Max talking about good balance and also perez I don't know where the nervousness of redbull comes from. Redbull car was not stable last years and they generally not in winning fight but this year they solved it and they are there. Max also likes a stable/balanced car.
Think gap between them and how a small thing can do that gap. It is where driver feels the car and understand the car.

[GOAT]

I saw it with Schumacher.

Agree. The top guy will always get shot at hugely. Just the way it goes.

Not wanting to step on anybodies toes- but Schumacher was popular all around the world, except for the UK and maybe Spain, once Alonso arrived.

People want to see drivers do exceptional things- and most of the time it happens during wet races.

- Schumacher Spanish GP ‘96
- Hamilton British GP ‘08
- Verstappen Brazilian GP ‘16

Afterwards your a ‘fan’ for life..

[Gillian]

That is not what we are discussing. Popularity has little to do with it. If anything popularity seems to drive some individuals to spread more false information. But that is an entirely different topic, not specific to F1.

[Mr.S]

They did redesign the rear suspension & gearbox so the car has a lot less sensitive rear than last year. Because the Honda new PU, the rear packaging & downforce is also a lot better.

You can still argue but it isn't the same as Gasly or Albon in 2019. Perez can do a lot better in qualifying !

[Gillian]

No engine change planned as expected:

Verstappen said that if the team does change his engine, it is unlikely to be at this weekend’s race.

“We haven’t really decided yet,” he said. “We’ll see. It’s definitely not the plan to have to take it here."

[Juzh]

Verstappen not looking too optimistic in regards to their straight line performance. He seems completely knackered as well for some reason, just look at those tired eyes.

[TNTHead]

Verstappen not looking too optimistic in regards to their straight line performance. He seems completely knackered as well for some reason, just look at those tired eyes.

May be the intense orange weekend is taking its toll. Hopefully it doesnt impact his performance.