Mercedes W11

[Morteza]

Austria upgrades (via F1i.com)

[wesley123]

'electrical noise' doesn't really sound like a big issue imo. Insulation of cables would be a relatively easy fix is my guess.

[zibby43]

Mercedes admits W11 design has fundamental gearbox issue!

They think that repeat gearbox problem on its W11 would be inevitable with its current car configuration, after revealing that a build-up of electrical noise is triggering its issues: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... e/4827558/

It's actually the ancillary components inside the car, which in turn affect the gearbox sensors, rather than the gearbox itself. Which is critical, as those other ancillary components can be replaced with fresh, newly designed/manufactured components without running afoul of the "5 consecutive races for a gearbox" rule.

"Shovlin explained that the cause of the problems is related to a build-up of electrical interference within the car systems, which ultimately begin to impact on the gearbox and its sensors."

While changes may require modifications to the gearbox, it is understood it will not require a totally new gearbox design.

[zibby43]

Update on the gearbox sensor issue:

[dans79]

Update on the gearbox sensor issue:

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 31011?s=20

Good to hear, I assumed this was going to be a simple fix that added a filter to the sensor/control loop.

[zibby43]

Update on the gearbox sensor issue:

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 31011?s=20

Good to hear, I assumed this was going to be a simple fix that added a filter to the sensor/control loop.

Interesting. I wondered what what would be the most efficient way of addressing it. Thanks for sharing a little more insight.

[dans79]

Update on the gearbox sensor issue:

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 31011?s=20

Good to hear, I assumed this was going to be a simple fix that added a filter to the sensor/control loop.

Interesting. I wondered what what would be the most efficient way of addressing it. Thanks for sharing a little more insight.

It depends what they mean by noise exactly. I assume they mean em noise giving erroneous signals. If that's the case the best fix would be shielding the components and wiring, but that isn't something they are going to be able to turn around in under a week without access to home base. Thus, I assume they are going to use software to try and filter out the bad signals and work around the issue.

[LM10]

Good to hear, I assumed this was going to be a simple fix that added a filter to the sensor/control loop.

Interesting. I wondered what what would be the most efficient way of addressing it. Thanks for sharing a little more insight.

It depends what they mean by noise exactly. I assume they mean em noise giving erroneous signals. If that's the case the best fix would be shielding the components and wiring, but that isn't something they are going to be able to turn around in under a week without access to home base. Thus, I assume they are going to use software to try and filter out the bad signals and work around the issue.

I think a simple fix via software (filtering) would have been done over the weekend as well. They knew that problem on Friday already. So the real fix of the issue might actually take longer and the countermeasurements Fabrega is talking about might be no fixing, but reducing the issue.

[zibby43]

Good to hear, I assumed this was going to be a simple fix that added a filter to the sensor/control loop.

Interesting. I wondered what what would be the most efficient way of addressing it. Thanks for sharing a little more insight.

It depends what they mean by noise exactly. I assume they mean em noise giving erroneous signals. If that's the case the best fix would be shielding the components and wiring, but that isn't something they are going to be able to turn around in under a week without access to home base. Thus, I assume they are going to use software to try and filter out the bad signals and work around the issue.

Appreciate the insight. One of the reasons I love this forum.

As @LM10 mentions above, does software play a role at all?

[PlatinumZealot]

He said the "model" had a know problem. Sounds like some sort of hardware problem.

[ncx]

After winter testing, iirc, the general take on the DAS was that it allows to zero the toe on the straight while putting it back in the corner, hence giving much more scope for toe optimisation, including larger toe in corners without comprising the straight, tyre wear reduction and possibly aero advantages. The currently most common story is instead that it is used to increase toe on the straight to warm the tyres. Of course it may well be that they use it differently on different tracks, although not during the race as apparently there are only two settings available to the drivers. Is there any direct conclusive evidence on how it was used in Austria, say, from onboard camera footage in which the change in toe is visible?

[SiLo]

I think there is some camera footage of it being used, likely some on boards.

[Holm86]

After winter testing, iirc, the general take on the DAS was that it allows to zero the toe on the straight while putting it back in the corner, hence giving much more scope for toe optimisation, including larger toe in corners without comprising the straight, tyre wear reduction and possibly aero advantages. The currently most common story is instead that it is used to increase toe on the straight to warm the tyres. Of course it may well be that they use it differently on different tracks, although not during the race as apparently there are only two settings available to the drivers. Is there any direct conclusive evidence on how it was used in Austria, say, from onboard camera footage in which the change in toe is visible?

I just had a wheel alignment done on my car, as it went through a couple of new front tires in 5 months.
After the alignment the gasmilage even went up by 10%.

I think DAS enables Mercedes to use a bit more aggresive toe out, and uses DAS to control tire wear/temperatures and fuel efficiency. The more aggresive toe, can be used to get more heat into the tires during safety car.
But ofc it will be different from track to track. But there are a lot of minor issues DAS can solve. The geometry setup can be less compromized ...

[bosyber]

After winter testing, iirc, the general take on the DAS was that it allows to zero the toe on the straight while putting it back in the corner, hence giving much more scope for toe optimisation, including larger toe in corners without comprising the straight, tyre wear reduction and possibly aero advantages. The currently most common story is instead that it is used to increase toe on the straight to warm the tyres. Of course it may well be that they use it differently on different tracks, although not during the race as apparently there are only two settings available to the drivers. Is there any direct conclusive evidence on how it was used in Austria, say, from onboard camera footage in which the change in toe is visible?

I just had a wheel alignment done on my car, as it went through a couple of new front tires in 5 months.
After the alignment the gasmilage even went up by 10%.

I think DAS enables Mercedes to use a bit more aggresive toe out, and uses DAS to control tire wear/temperatures and fuel efficiency. The more aggresive toe, can be used to get more heat into the tires during safety car.
But ofc it will be different from track to track. But there are a lot of minor issues DAS can solve. The geometry setup can be less compromized ...

Seems likely. Also, I recall a radio transmission to Bottas that he'd have to go further on the DAS setting to get the tyres warmed during the 1st SC of last Sunday's race, so I doubt there is just a binary setting for it, though there maybe notches and a limited amount of pre-sets per weekend.

[zibby43]

Any thoughts on why the Merc’s looked relatively underwhelming compared to last week? Particularly with HAM’s car?

No one at Merc seemed that concerned about the performance, other than saying there were stumped by HAM’s car’s performance in certain corner types.

HAM was in a light mood, though, talking about a “dry dance” for tomorrow.