2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[jambuka]

I don’t trust Sainz nowadays either. He is even slower than Charles in the same car.

The problem is that Leclerc is the far more pessimistic driver of the two. It's worrying when Sainz starts being pessimistic as he is normally the more optimistic of the two. Leclerc already sounded like someone killed his dog in Bahrain, Sainz was the opposite. Now Sainz is turning.

I mean the car was almost 1s slower in Bahrain, so of course Charles wasn't very happy. The performance was even worse in Jeddah.

Sainz was actually happy with the car in testing. That’s why I doubt what he says now.

[jambuka]

Does anyone know why they did not use the new floor which was tested at Jeddah FP1 in the race? Seems like the rest of the car for Australia is Jeddah spec except they want to use the floor the entire weekend. Not sure why did they not use it for race at Jeddah then.

[Xyz22]

The problem is that Leclerc is the far more pessimistic driver of the two. It's worrying when Sainz starts being pessimistic as he is normally the more optimistic of the two. Leclerc already sounded like someone killed his dog in Bahrain, Sainz was the opposite. Now Sainz is turning.

I mean the car was almost 1s slower in Bahrain, so of course Charles wasn't very happy. The performance was even worse in Jeddah.

Sainz was actually happy with the car in testing. That’s why I doubt what he says now.

Sainz was probably happy because he was looking better than Leclerc.

[Vanja #66]

I don't know about the blame shifting. It's what he is saying about the car that is worrying.

The worrying is long gone, it passed as soon as we learned Sanchez is leaving. Now it's well known that Vigna/Elkann will shift the blame to Binotto and his company, while Vasseur is given a daunting task trying to keep the current group from falling apart completely.

I wouldn't be surprised they go so far to scrap the development completely in the next 2 months and "focus" on 2024. The excuses are already there and it's clear where the narrative will be going - car doesn't have big development potential, our concept doesn't work and all the other bs we are hearing. At this point, I hope Charles leaves very soon, maybe even an early exit after this season is possible.

[AR3-GP]

I don't know about the blame shifting. It's what he is saying about the car that is worrying.

The worrying is long gone, it passed as soon as we learned Sanchez is leaving. Now it's well known that Vigna/Elkann will shift the blame to Binotto and his company, while Vasseur is given a daunting task trying to keep the current group from falling apart completely.

I wouldn't be surprised they go so far to scrap the development completely in the next 2 months and "focus" on 2024. The excuses are already there and it's clear where the narrative will be going - car doesn't have big development potential, our concept doesn't work and all the other bs we are hearing. At this point, I hope Charles leaves very soon, maybe even an early exit after this season is possible.

Oh come on, I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Let's see what they make of this season before we start saying treasonous things like hoping Charles leaves. That would be devastating for Ferrari. It's best not to think it.

[Vanja #66]

Oh come on, I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Let's see what they make of this season before we start saying treasonous things like hoping Charles leaves. That would be devastating for Ferrari. It's best not to think it.

I've been a Tifosi for more than 20 years and I'm following F1 very closely since 2005. I know where this narrative is going.

Since the news Sanchez left, I knew they'd have a lot of trouble getting the car to the full potential. The problem isn't the car or the technical competency of the person who takes over Sanchez. The problem is quick decision making and getting things going in the right direction with every decision. Time is of essence and new person simply doesn't have the confidence to bring any decision fast. It's impossible, you have to take so many things into account and when you take over a department, no matter your experience, the small issues of no importance (like understanding the workflow of new position and all the extra work you didn't have so much contact with previously) simply take their toll. You lose time, you miss a few things, doubt creeps in a bit and things start to slow down and/or go sideways.

It was clear Binotto's departure will take a toll, but it wasn't clear just how toxic the influence of Vigna and Elkann is.

[AR3-GP]

Oh come on, I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Let's see what they make of this season before we start saying treasonous things like hoping Charles leaves. That would be devastating for Ferrari. It's best not to think it.

I've been a Tifosi for more than 20 years and I'm following F1 very closely since 2005. I know where this narrative is going.

Since the news Sanchez left, I knew they'd have a lot of trouble getting the car to the full potential. The problem isn't the car or the technical competency of the person who takes over Sanchez. The problem is quick decision making and getting things going in the right direction with every decision. Time is of essence and new person simply doesn't have the confidence to bring any decision fast. It's impossible, you have to take so many things into account and when you take over a department, no matter your experience, the small issues of no importance (like understanding the workflow of new position and all the extra work you didn't have so much contact with previously) simply take their toll. You lose time, you miss a few things, doubt creeps in a bit and things start to slow down and/or go sideways.

It was clear Binotto's departure will take a toll, but it wasn't clear just how toxic the influence of Vigna and Elkann is.

I agree that they are lacking in the execution of their ideas. The laptime comparisons to last season are simply unacceptable and point to some other issue. Almost every car improved from last year and this basically has nothing to do with concepts. It's about execution and Binotto's departure is just a symptom of both a headless chicken ( no real leader), and a hydra (too many executives in the kitchen who have no clue what they are doing).

[LM10]

Charles: "I know there are quite a lot of upgrades coming to the car in the next few months and this should help us to close the gap."


Do you guys have a timeline for these upgrades?

Charles: "We don’t have a timeline just because we are pushing so much that this timeline is consistently changing and getting closer, so that is good news. The team is pushing massively."

[AR3-GP]

Charles: "I know there are quite a lot of upgrades coming to the car in the next few months and this should help us to close the gap."


Do you guys have a timeline for these upgrades?

Charles: "We don’t have a timeline just because we are pushing so much that this timeline is consistently changing and getting closer, so that is good news. The team is pushing massively."

In other words, they will push as hard as they can, but they know they can only affect themselves. They can't make others slower. We will have to wait and see what it is worth relative to the competition.

[Xyz22]

Oh come on, I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Let's see what they make of this season before we start saying treasonous things like hoping Charles leaves. That would be devastating for Ferrari. It's best not to think it.

I've been a Tifosi for more than 20 years and I'm following F1 very closely since 2005. I know where this narrative is going.

Since the news Sanchez left, I knew they'd have a lot of trouble getting the car to the full potential. The problem isn't the car or the technical competency of the person who takes over Sanchez. The problem is quick decision making and getting things going in the right direction with every decision. Time is of essence and new person simply doesn't have the confidence to bring any decision fast. It's impossible, you have to take so many things into account and when you take over a department, no matter your experience, the small issues of no importance (like understanding the workflow of new position and all the extra work you didn't have so much contact with previously) simply take their toll. You lose time, you miss a few things, doubt creeps in a bit and things start to slow down and/or go sideways.

It was clear Binotto's departure will take a toll, but it wasn't clear just how toxic the influence of Vigna and Elkann is.

Unfortunately, we have no real info about the current situation in Ferrari. Clearly something went wrong during the development of this car, as the current performance is absolutely not acceptable. I also agree that the issue is not the overall concept, but the execution because this car is probably even worse than the F1 75 post TD.

I have never seen anyone recovering such a big gap from the competition. The best path forward right now is to try to understand what went wrong, deliver some upgrades to address the main issues, and indeed move to next year (unless the first few upgrades don't magically bring like 0,6 0,7s of performance).

[jambuka]

Oh come on, I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Let's see what they make of this season before we start saying treasonous things like hoping Charles leaves. That would be devastating for Ferrari. It's best not to think it.

I've been a Tifosi for more than 20 years and I'm following F1 very closely since 2005. I know where this narrative is going.

Since the news Sanchez left, I knew they'd have a lot of trouble getting the car to the full potential. The problem isn't the car or the technical competency of the person who takes over Sanchez. The problem is quick decision making and getting things going in the right direction with every decision. Time is of essence and new person simply doesn't have the confidence to bring any decision fast. It's impossible, you have to take so many things into account and when you take over a department, no matter your experience, the small issues of no importance (like understanding the workflow of new position and all the extra work you didn't have so much contact with previously) simply take their toll. You lose time, you miss a few things, doubt creeps in a bit and things start to slow down and/or go sideways.

It was clear Binotto's departure will take a toll, but it wasn't clear just how toxic the influence of Vigna and Elkann is.

Unfortunately, we have no real info about the current situation in Ferrari. Clearly something went wrong during the development of this car, as the current performance is absolutely not acceptable. I also agree that the issue is not the overall concept, but the execution because this car is probably even worse than the F1 75 post TD.

I have never seen anyone recovering such a big gap from the competition. The best path forward right now is to try to understand what went wrong, deliver some upgrades to address the main issues, and indeed move to next year (unless the first few upgrades don't magically bring like 0,6 0,7s of performance).

Don't agree with the mentality of moving to next year, every year. At once the team should maximize and learn to develop within the year and gain that experience to try and reduce the deficit. They can move on to next year, go to RB concept and yet find themselves 1 sec behind next year. Team has to come out of the nature of giving up and moving onto next year all the time

[Vinlarr89]

Ferrari need to use the season to learn the direction they’re going in. Stopping now and moving to next year as they’ve done previous 2 seasons hasn’t yielded good following seasons.

[MTL79]

Ok so I may answer my question partially here... but:

If Ferrari is really as bad as everyone says they are AND there really is a new concept coming next year, why waste money on continuing to develop this year's car? I guess the windtunnel time being restricted has something to do with it but maybe they can start working on some basic ideas under this year's cap so they can get ahead?

Now if my question above is valid, and that's a big IF, then if they don't do that, does it indicate that they will simply stay with the same concept next year, given that they would hypothetically continue to develop the car the rest of the season?

Am I out to lunch?

[JordanMugen]

It was clear Binotto's departure will take a toll, but it wasn't clear just how toxic the influence of Vigna and Elkann is.

Oh dear. That sounds dreadful. Why on Earth did Ferrari fire Binotto for? What a terrible decision and a loss of a superb team principal.

Dismantling an effective technical leadership group seems most unwise.

[Xyz22]

I've been a Tifosi for more than 20 years and I'm following F1 very closely since 2005. I know where this narrative is going.

Since the news Sanchez left, I knew they'd have a lot of trouble getting the car to the full potential. The problem isn't the car or the technical competency of the person who takes over Sanchez. The problem is quick decision making and getting things going in the right direction with every decision. Time is of essence and new person simply doesn't have the confidence to bring any decision fast. It's impossible, you have to take so many things into account and when you take over a department, no matter your experience, the small issues of no importance (like understanding the workflow of new position and all the extra work you didn't have so much contact with previously) simply take their toll. You lose time, you miss a few things, doubt creeps in a bit and things start to slow down and/or go sideways.

It was clear Binotto's departure will take a toll, but it wasn't clear just how toxic the influence of Vigna and Elkann is.

Unfortunately, we have no real info about the current situation in Ferrari. Clearly something went wrong during the development of this car, as the current performance is absolutely not acceptable. I also agree that the issue is not the overall concept, but the execution because this car is probably even worse than the F1 75 post TD.

I have never seen anyone recovering such a big gap from the competition. The best path forward right now is to try to understand what went wrong, deliver some upgrades to address the main issues, and indeed move to next year (unless the first few upgrades don't magically bring like 0,6 0,7s of performance).

Don't agree with the mentality of moving to next year, every year. At once the team should maximize and learn to develop within the year and gain that experience to try and reduce the deficit. They can move on to next year, go to RB concept and yet find themselves 1 sec behind next year. Team has to come out of the nature of giving up and moving onto next year all the time

Actually, Ferrari was quite competitive in 2017 and 2022 because they started working on the next year car at the time quite early. Currently, the car is 1s off. Now we need to see what the first few upgrades will bring in terms of performance. If they make the car 0.5s / 0.6s faster than i'd say it could be a good idea to keep improving the SF 23. If they only bring 0.2 0.3s then what is the point if you need to spend money on this year car instead of the next one?