DiResta

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Cam
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Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 08:38

Re: DiResta

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[...]

If you think DiResta is awesome - don't be lazy, do some work, draw some graphs, set some tables, compare results and lay it out so others can see it. Like wise for opposing views. Otherwise to quote mosts mum's favourite singer - consider - "you say it best, when you say nothing at all"
Last edited by Steven on 09 Jun 2013, 18:32, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Stripped off-topic rumble
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scuderiafan
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Re: DiResta

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Lately he's been cross with his engineers. In qualy today they --- up I guess. I don't know how, but di Resta went to the pit wall after weighing in and made some gestures at his engineers that obviously said "what the hell, guys?!". In Monaco it was the same deal, he missed out on qualifying.
"You're so angry that you throw your gloves down, and the worst part is; you have to pick them up again." - Steve Matchett

Patiently waiting...

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scotty86
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Re: DiResta

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I think it is important to perhaps not jump the gun over broadcast team radio messages, which is where i've seen a lot of PDR's complaints take place. It's not like the team radio messages really show everything, and i think we could all agree that it's pretty likely that all drivers go off at their teams sometimes when they are frustrated, it's just that we happened to catch PDR doing it on team radio.

That said, back to the OP, i agree, i cannot find myself 'warming to him' either... i just haven't found his personality endearing over the many interviews and such that i've seen him in. But i do like him as a driver, i think he is very good. Rarely has a bad race, and come to think of it, his consistency is utterly amazing, right up there with Alonso and co - i can't think of many times at all in F1 where he's made driving errors.

Kansas
Kansas
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Re: DiResta

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scotty86 wrote:I think it is important to perhaps not jump the gun over broadcast team radio messages, which is where i've seen a lot of PDR's complaints take place. It's not like the team radio messages really show everything, and i think we could all agree that it's pretty likely that all drivers go off at their teams sometimes when they are frustrated, it's just that we happened to catch PDR doing it on team radio.

That said, back to the OP, i agree, i cannot find myself 'warming to him' either... i just haven't found his personality endearing over the many interviews and such that i've seen him in. But i do like him as a driver, i think he is very good. Rarely has a bad race, and come to think of it, his consistency is utterly amazing, right up there with Alonso and co - i can't think of many times at all in F1 where he's made driving errors.
consistency is amazing??? even on parr with alonso??

is that the reason why he hasn't beat any single teammate so far??

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raymondu999
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Re: DiResta

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I have the same impression on Di Resta. The way he speaks comes across to me as if he's saying, "I beat the guy who is the reigning triple-back-to-back champ, so it must be the car."

It was Will Buxton who revealed that Force India engineers often complained of Di Resta, because he was something of a diva. Whenever he qualifies poorly it's always a team fault. He seems to me as a guy who tries to cover his own ass too. For example he was saying how he was equal to Hulkenberg in 2012, comparing their equal-best finishes of P4, and even saying, "we both led races - I did in Bahrain and he did in brazil." Which is a complete farce. Leading the race on pace after overtaking the best cars in the field (he overtook ferraris, McLarens and red bulls to lead in brazil) is not the same as leading because you haven't pitted and everyone else has. Not to mention he only lead a lap.
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SectorOne
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Re: DiResta

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I have no problems with DiResta. He seems super focused and knows deep down that he is one of the best drivers out there.
Just need the car to prove it.
And yes, i think him beating Vettel in an equal car in F3 does a lot to strengthen that viewpoint.
It´s quite hard to argue against the fact that he could do it again, given the chance.

Whatever he is outside the car to me is completely irrelevant, i watch the sport not the soap opera that surrounds it.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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Gridlock
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Re: DiResta

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SectorOne wrote: Whatever he is outside the car to me is completely irrelevant, i watch the sport not the soap opera that surrounds it.
Same, I hate the fact that actors and sports stars etc are expected to be "public personalities". I've always respected Kimi for his stance on this, and for what must have been a painful decision to sign for McLaren - take a seat in a top tier car but pay with your soul.

Strikes me diResta may be in a similar boat, he doesn't much like all this be-nice PR crap and calls a spade a spade. When it was revealed he'd been signed up to Charm School at the beginning of this year I wondered whether the Perez decision wasn't so much about age as marketability, and it made him take steps.
#58

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Websta
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SectorOne wrote:I have no problems with DiResta. He seems super focused and knows deep down that he is one of the best drivers out there.
Just need the car to prove it.
And yes, i think him beating Vettel in an equal car in F3 does a lot to strengthen that viewpoint.
It´s quite hard to argue against the fact that he could do it again, given the chance.

Whatever he is outside the car to me is completely irrelevant, i watch the sport not the soap opera that surrounds it.
Vettel is not the first top F1 driver to be beaten by a team mate in a junior F1 series. Di Resta himself was beaten by a significant margin in his first Euro F3 season by both Vettel (driving for a different team, also his first season) and even more so by Lucas DiGrassi who was DiResta's team mate at the time. If we are going to give lots of credit to DiResta beating Vettel in 06, then DiGrassi should be getting even more praise as he beat DiResta by a much larger margin than DiResta beat Vettel. There are many other examples involving other drivers. There's a reason why top-flight careers are not judged based on performance in junior racing championships...

Not that I have any problem saying DiResta beat Vettel in F3, as it is a true fact. But I don't like the way DiResta is continually bringing it up in interviews as if his performance over a single season in a not-exactly-top-flight championship over 7 years ago makes him on-par with the current 3x WDC Vettel (or in the case of the below quote, 2x WDC Vettel). Vettel has massively improved since he joined F1, he is most definitely not the same driver as he was back in 2006.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/12/p ... -best-car/
“We had the same car, same engine, same tyres and I beat him,” said Di Resta. “I don’t want to diminish Vettel’s achievement (this year), but he won the championship because he had the best car. He did his job, but another driver in the same car would probably have achieved the same results. I hope one day to have the same opportunity.”
I do like DiResta as a driver; he is smart and pretty consistent and quick. But he has a massive chip on his shoulder - frequently complaining about and blaming poor luck rather than taking responsibility, diminishing Vettel's achievements, and now publicly blaming and shaming his engineering staff. I agree with OP that if I were Findia management, I would not be happy about it.

And the only team mate comparison he should be concerned about is his one last year vs Hulkenburg, who is his main competition for a top flight seat.

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SectorOne
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Websta wrote:Vettel has massively improved since he joined F1, he is most definitely not the same driver as he was back in 2006.
How would you know? I definitely don´t doubt Vettel to be one of the best right now but how can you know he´s improved much more then Di Resta for example?

His teammates since Di Resta has been,

Mikhail Aleshin
Kobayashi
Heidfeld
Liuzzi
Bourdais
Webber

And if you count out Heidfeld, Di Resta is the only guy that has beaten him with the same machinery.
2006 F3 season and then once in 2006 Masters of Formula 3,

So i definitely think there´s more to it then simply "Vettel has improved massively since then".
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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Websta
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SectorOne wrote:
Websta wrote:Vettel has massively improved since he joined F1, he is most definitely not the same driver as he was back in 2006.
How would you know? I definitely don´t doubt Vettel to be one of the best right now but how can you know he´s improved much more then Di Resta for example?

His teammates since Di Resta has been,

Mikhail Aleshin
Kobayashi
Heidfeld
Liuzzi
Bourdais
Webber

And if you count out Heidfeld, Di Resta is the only guy that has beaten him with the same machinery.
2006 F3 season and then once in 2006 Masters of Formula 3,

So i definitely think there´s more to it then simply "Vettel has improved massively since then".
Perhaps "massively" was a bit of an overstatement, but we have clearly seen the improvement in Vettel's judgement and race craft, especially over the last 3 seasons.

But how do I know that DiResta hasn't improved as much? Well, I don't. But he is yet to beat a team mate over 1 season in F1 whereas Vettel has beaten Mark Webber (who I rate highly) in almost every statistical category since 2009. I hate to get into "driver A is better than driver B" comparisons, and that wasn't the intention of my original post, but based on what we have seen of DiResta's and Vettel's F1 careers, does anyone genuinely think that DiResta would beat Vettel if they were paired up right now at RBR or Findia?

So you can see why I think it's silly of him to keep dragging up that season in F3 when he beat Vettel for a title as if it means that he is still the better driver. That last bit is what I assume he is always hinting at when he brings it up.

JimClarkFan
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Re: DiResta

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raymondu999 wrote:I have the same impression on Di Resta. The way he speaks comes across to me as if he's saying, "I beat the guy who is the reigning triple-back-to-back champ, so it must be the car."

It was Will Buxton who revealed that Force India engineers often complained of Di Resta, because he was something of a diva. Whenever he qualifies poorly it's always a team fault. He seems to me as a guy who tries to cover his own ass too. For example he was saying how he was equal to Hulkenberg in 2012, comparing their equal-best finishes of P4, and even saying, "we both led races - I did in Bahrain and he did in brazil." Which is a complete farce. Leading the race on pace after overtaking the best cars in the field (he overtook ferraris, McLarens and red bulls to lead in brazil) is not the same as leading because you haven't pitted and everyone else has. Not to mention he only lead a lap.
Pretty much how I feel.
I think he believes he is something special because he beat Vettel 7 years ago.
And a word on Hulkenburg, I feel he is unbelievably good, probably the best of rest, and perhaps up their with Alonso/Vettel/Hamiltons of this world (big claim I know), however unfortunate to not have been elevated to a top team so we can't be sure.

Websta wrote: Vettel is not the first top F1 driver to be beaten by a team mate in a junior F1 series. Di Resta himself was beaten by a significant margin in his first Euro F3 season by both Vettel (driving for a different team, also his first season) and even more so by Lucas DiGrassi who was DiResta's team mate at the time. If we are going to give lots of credit to DiResta beating Vettel in 06, then DiGrassi should be getting even more praise as he beat DiResta by a much larger margin than DiResta beat Vettel. There are many other examples involving other drivers. There's a reason why top-flight careers are not judged based on performance in junior racing championships...

Not that I have any problem saying DiResta beat Vettel in F3, as it is a true fact. But I don't like the way DiResta is continually bringing it up in interviews as if his performance over a single season in a not-exactly-top-flight championship over 7 years ago makes him on-par with the current 3x WDC Vettel (or in the case of the below quote, 2x WDC Vettel). Vettel has massively improved since he joined F1, he is most definitely not the same driver as he was back in 2006.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/12/p ... -best-car/
“We had the same car, same engine, same tyres and I beat him,” said Di Resta. “I don’t want to diminish Vettel’s achievement (this year), but he won the championship because he had the best car. He did his job, but another driver in the same car would probably have achieved the same results. I hope one day to have the same opportunity.”
I do like DiResta as a driver; he is smart and pretty consistent and quick. But he has a massive chip on his shoulder - frequently complaining about and blaming poor luck rather than taking responsibility, diminishing Vettel's achievements, and now publicly blaming and shaming his engineering staff. I agree with OP that if I were Findia management, I would not be happy about it.

And the only team mate comparison he should be concerned about is his one last year vs Hulkenburg, who is his main competition for a top flight seat.
I think there has been a lot of maturing done to greater and lesser degrees.

Both these guys were late teens, early 20s, and people mature very differently.

Vettel's progress is remarkable, gifted the title in 2010 by Webber choking in quali and a strategic error from the prancing horse, and then storming away with the title in 2011 based on good quali pace. In all honesty, I didn't really rate him highly during those seasons, and I felt there were several drivers who would have easily won in 2010 and 2011, given the same equipment.

2012 he impressed me, though he was helped by Grosjean, and this year he seems to have just brought it all together even more. The pace, the ability to race hard and still bring the car home with all 4 wheels on it when others his age and older are chucking theirs at the wall every other weekend.

In 2010 and 2011, I felt there were a good few drivers that could have won the title in the manner which he could. Now though I feel there is perhaps only 2 or 3 which you could say are in his league. The aliens of F1 who always make the best out of their car and circumstance.

The point is, as a casual observer I can see great improvements from Vettel, so I don't believe DiResta's attitude is justified, as you have eluded to.

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Juzh
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Re: DiResta

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SectorOne wrote:And if you count out Heidfeld, Di Resta is the only guy that has beaten him with the same machinery.
2006 F3 season and then once in 2006 Masters of Formula 3
Webber beat alonso in F3000 as well. Does this now make him better than him? We all know the answer to that one.
Junior racing holds little to no ground for comparions in F1.

Wasnt vettel's arm heavily injured for like half the season when diresta beat him anyway?

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raymondu999
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Juzh wrote:
SectorOne wrote:And if you count out Heidfeld, Di Resta is the only guy that has beaten him with the same machinery.
2006 F3 season and then once in 2006 Masters of Formula 3
Webber beat alonso in F3000 as well. Does this now make him better than him? We all know the answer to that one.
Junior racing holds little to no ground for comparions in F1.
Agreed. Remember Brundle vs Senna in F3?
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Juzh
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JimClarkFan wrote: Vettel's progress is remarkable, gifted the title in 2010 by Webber choking in quali and a strategic error from the prancing horse
The one who was almost gifted a WC in 2010 was alonso, not vettel. blown engines, spark plugs, brakes... all while leading the race.
raymondu999 wrote:
Juzh wrote:
SectorOne wrote:And if you count out Heidfeld, Di Resta is the only guy that has beaten him with the same machinery.
2006 F3 season and then once in 2006 Masters of Formula 3
Webber beat alonso in F3000 as well. Does this now make him better than him? We all know the answer to that one.
Junior racing holds little to no ground for comparions in F1.
Agreed. Remember Brundle vs Senna in F3?
And there's that one.

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SectorOne
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Juzh wrote:Webber beat alonso in F3000 as well. Does this now make him better than him? We all know the answer to that one.
Different teams.

Brundle and Senna the same but let´s not kid ourselves here,

13 wins. 14 pole positions. 15 podiums. 12 fastest laps. Senna
_5 wins. _3 pole positions. 17 podiums. _5 fastest laps. Brundle

Brundle did good but not that good.
Last edited by SectorOne on 09 Jun 2013, 16:33, edited 1 time in total.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"