2021 F1 New Engine Formula

[Selvariabell]

It seems like this could already usher in the end of the V6T Hybrid era in 2020.
V10 and V12 engines are ruled out too.

This could mean a couple of things;

V6T is allowed to stay, and additionally, or instead, we might see:

V8 Turbo Hybrid
V8 Atmospheric Hybrid
V6 Atmospheric Hybrid
Inline-6 Turbo Hybrid
Inline-6 Atmospheric Hybrid
Inline-5 Turbo Hybrid
Inline-5 Atmospheric Hybrid
Inline-4 Turbo Hybrid
Inline-4 Atmospheric Hybrid

Assuming Atmoshperical engines were concidered 'permanently distinct' in F1, that would mean we would be looking into Turbo-only options. On the other hand, Turbo engines are complicated engines, especially in the Hybrid-combo's like we seen now.

As for the people starting to scream blood and murder that a straight 4-cylinder (turbo) could happen,
please do for all that is personal education seek up the mighty BMW F1 engines of the 80's, those were inline 4 cylinder turbos with 1200+ HP. That means these engines produced more than the BMW V10 engines famously propelling Montoya's BMW.

Personally, an inline-4 turbo engine would sound interesting to me. It would almost guarantee BMW's re-entry, as well as VW or Audi stepping in. Honda hopefully will stay when they fix their engine this year, Ferrari also had mighty 4 cylinders, and Mercedes will too, and obviously, the same would go for Renault, which initiated this concept long ago.

that would see:

Audi
BMW
Ferrari
Honda
Mercedes
Renault

and hopefully

Ford/Cosworth
Toyota

and perhaps

Aston Martin through RedBull

I doubt Aston Martin would become an engine supplier, they have very little experience with turbochargers (trust me, the turbo in the DB11 is terrible), and they have virtually zero experience with hybrids. However, I can see the others coming in.

This is the possible manufacturer teams in the future.

Mercedes: Petronas-AMG Mercedes
Ferrari: Scuderia Ferrari
Renault: Renault Sport
Honda: McLaren-Honda
Audi: Red Bull Racing (Red Bull-Audi is leading the WRX, and KTM, the motorcycle Red Bull is using in MotoGP, is owned by Audi. It appears that the two companies are in very good terms.)
BMW: Williams/Sauber (BMW is most likely to stick with their proven partners)
Toyota: Williams/their own team (Toyota can fill the void made by Manor, although it would be cooler if they stick with Williams)
Ford/Cosworth: Williams/Haas (the latter is assuming Trump goes full Fascist and funds Haas out of Nationalist intension just like Alfa Romeo and Mercedes back in the 30's)

[Jolle]

apart from speculating if it should be a V8 or a L4T, the FIA and FOM should sit down with the big companies like VAG, Toyota, Ford and BMW, next to the current partners Honda, Daimler, Renault and FIAT what it would take for hem to invest into F1.

The current rules of payment aren't kind for PU-suppliers. There is a lot of involvement for the racing teams with bonus money, staring fee's and prize money but no payment or loyalty scheme for PU manufacturers.

At the moment if feels like PU manufacturers are more sponsors then partners.

[Selvariabell]

apart from speculating if it should be a V8 or a L4T, the FIA and FOM should sit down with the big companies like VAG, Toyota, Ford and BMW, next to the current partners Honda, Daimler, Renault and FIAT what it would take for hem to invest into F1.

The current rules of payment aren't kind for PU-suppliers. There is a lot of involvement for the racing teams with bonus money, staring fee's and prize money but no payment or loyalty scheme for PU manufacturers.

At the moment if feels like PU manufacturers are more sponsors then partners.

The problem with your scheme is that it only widens the gap between the supplier teams and the customer teams. The supplier teams already have the significant financial and resource advantages as of now.

[Secret Formula]

Jean Todt shouldn't have ruled out V10 engine. Instead;

1. Bring back the V10 engine. But, make the V10 engine 3.6 l instead of 3.0 l or 3.5 l. With the angle of the engine remains at 90°.

2. Add Quad (4) Turbo Chargers, Quad (4) Super Chargers, Formula-e Electric Engine, Formula-e Electric Motor, Formula-e Electric Battery, ERS (Energy Recovery System) with stronger MGU-K and stronger MGU-H, Blown Diffuser, NOS (Nitrous Oxide), Methanol, and radiator.

3. Last but not least, don't put rev limiter on the engine, don't limit the exhaust flow rate, and don't limit the oil burn. This kind of regulation is not only makes the car slower, but also killing innovation!

But, if V10 engine already ruled out, then the best engine that I see from the option is the V8 Turbo hybrid.

[Juzh]

Mercedes and renault want to keep the mgu-h for 2021. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

https://twitter.com/ams_formula1/status ... 1730762752

[Zynerji]

I wonder what would happen if the FIA made it so the teams have to fully disclose their power unit designs and manufacturing process at the start of 2020.

You would get a ton of new manufacturers jumping in, and would have a hybrid design of every engine.

But people seem to hate data sharing in F1...

[NathanOlder]

If all the manufacturers were told to share all their data in 2020, we would surely end up with nothing to share at all

[n_anirudh]

Was at Monza last weekend and the engines are plenty noisy and attracts strong crowds. There is no more high rev whining of the engines, but they are noisy. If they maintain the Monza noise level at all circuits, should be good enough to continue with 4 engines per 20 races

Penalties were given to encourage manufacturers to build better reliable engines- sadly the customer teams pay the price when the components fail.

[Zynerji]

If all the manufacturers were told to share all their data in 2020, we would surely end up with nothing to share at all

Why would you say that? They are under contract to compete, and it would be the outgoing engine tech that would be shared.

It would give everyone the combined data of this generations engines, and a year to put together the 2021 engine.

F1 could literally fix 100% of their spending war woes, by mandating a MINIMUM yearly technological investment ($50M?) that is shared at each event.

Instead of 50% off each teams budget being spent on reverse engineering other teams' solutions.

It would also make it super interesting to the technical fans, like ourselves.

[NathanOlder]

But why would (example) Mercedes spend any amount and employ very smart and expensive people to come up with amazing engineering ideas for their PU just to have that info given away for free.

Something tells me some manufacturers wouldn't like this

[Zynerji]

But why would (example) Mercedes spend any amount and employ very smart and expensive people to come up with amazing engineering ideas for their PU just to have that info given away for free.

Something tells me some manufacturers wouldn't like this

Only the ones with a current advantage.

They would share because if 10 teams all invest 50M to develop, you offer 50M of your invested dollars to get back 450M from 9 other teams.

There is something addictive to winning by very small margins as well.

And the more thrilling the racing for the fans, the bigger the purse is for the teams.

Cheaper, compounding development,
closer parity, higher margin in returns, self policing, deeper journalism and fan engagement, non-spec and the only drama is on track.

Sounds like my dream championship.

[Just_a_fan]

Mercedes want to win every race 1-2 and to do so comfortably. They have invested massive amounts in the current engine format to do this. They don't want to do that and then give it all away so they'd just leave. Likewise every other engine maker except for, perhaps, Ferrari.

Ferrari might be happy to have a single engine supply formula if they are the supplier. They'd doubtless make sure their team had the best info etc to ensure they win (quite understandably so).

Mercedes and Renault would not, I think, be so keen and Ferrari won't run someone else's engine. So giving away secrets isn't going to happen.

[Zynerji]

I'm talking aero as well.

F1 is a failing business model that has the highest placed people openly admitting it is not sustainable.

It is a MINIMUM investment, so you can weigh over spending for short term advantage, but it is given away.

It's the only self policing way to manage the current issues, as most of the cost is because of secrecy and reverse engineering.

Remove both, and the sport becomes self balancing.

If Mercedes and Ferrari leave because of that, they will be quickly replaced by a half dozen other manufacturers that see the absurd ROI as a market advantage that cannot be missed.

And everything is constructor branded. It's sharing the data to improve your own design that would be central to this concept.

[taperoo2k]

But why would (example) Mercedes spend any amount and employ very smart and expensive people to come up with amazing engineering ideas for their PU just to have that info given away for free.

Something tells me some manufacturers wouldn't like this

No manufacturer would go for that. Being forced to share designs and technology that might well be transferred from other areas would put them off. What the FIA should do is monitor the relative performance of each Power Unit and then allow a manufacturer to be able to introduce upgrades in season without penalty. I don't think we will see V8's or V10's in F1 again. I expect they'll keep the same configuration as now, but make it simpler.

[Zynerji]

But why would (example) Mercedes spend any amount and employ very smart and expensive people to come up with amazing engineering ideas for their PU just to have that info given away for free.

Something tells me some manufacturers wouldn't like this

No manufacturer would go for that. Being forced to share designs and technology that might well be transferred from other areas would put them off. What the FIA should do is monitor the relative performance of each Power Unit and then allow a manufacturer to be able to introduce upgrades in season without penalty. I don't think we will see V8's or V10's in F1 again. I expect they'll keep the same configuration as now, but make it simpler.

That does absolutely zero to control cost. Sharing the technology is the only way to prevent a fully spec series while bringing costs way down.