Are F1 Cars really the pinnacle anymore?

[Greg Locock]

If TC and ABS made the car less likely to win a race they would not have needed to be banned.

[roon]

"Pinnacle" only applied by spectators, not really the organizer's official motto as far as I know. In the sense of team sizes, capabilities, driver training/optimizing, budgets; yes, probably still pinnacle.

[Gaz.]

And is the racing really any better for it? in 2010 4 drivers were eligible to win the championship in the last race. 7 years later, we have regressed. its almost as if there isn't true "racing" anymore.

How many years has that ever happened? I can think of plenty of threes, but no other fours.

[rscsr]

And is the racing really any better for it? in 2010 4 drivers were eligible to win the championship in the last race. 7 years later, we have regressed. its almost as if there isn't true "racing" anymore.

How many years has that ever happened? I can think of plenty of threes, but no other fours.

I've got, after a somewhat quick check, the following (I tried to incorporate the discardable results in the early days and hope that they are correct) :
3 drivers in contention to win the championship in the last race:
2007: Hamilton(107), Alonso(103), Räikkönen(100)
1986: Mansell(70), Prost(64), Piquet(63)
1983: Prost(57), Piquet(55), Arnoux(49)
1982: Rosberg(42), Pironi(39), Watson(33)
1974: Fitipaldi(52), Regazzoni(52), Scheckter(45)
1968: Hill(39), Stewart(36), Hulme(33)
1964: Hill(39), Surtees(34), Clark(30)
1959: Brabham(31), Moss(25.5), Brooks(23)
1951: Fangio(27), Ascari(25), González(21)

4 drivers in contention to win the championship in the last race:
2010: Alonso(246), Webber(238), Vettel(231), Hamilton(222)

[Just_a_fan]

F1 is the pinnacle of non-USA open-wheeled racing. It's what the drivers all want to be in when they start out. That's what is meant by "pinnacle" here.

There has never been an assertion within the sport that F1 is "top tech".

[Jolle]

F1 is the pinnacle of non-USA open-wheeled racing. It's what the drivers all want to be in when they start out. That's what is meant by "pinnacle" here.

There has never been an assertion within the sport that F1 is "top tech".

Why just non-USA? I think F1 is by far the highest level of motorsport you can find at the moment.

[Just_a_fan]

I say non-USA only because, for the most part, US drivers tend not to aspire, or at least progress, to F1. The US has its own home-grown open-wheeled series with its own superstars.

[krisfx]

I mean, yes, its true, they are certainly the fastest thing around any track. That isn't really debatable. But from my perspective, F1 is supposed to be the place where limits are pushed both physical and technological. F1 now does everything but. Traction control: gone; ground effect: gone; ANTILOCK BRAKES!!! gone; hydrualic suspensions: gone; and one measly movable aero surface. ( I want to see flaps moving on these things like a fighter jet)

How can you be the pinnacle if you introduce technologies that will make F1 physically less demanding?

Point being; Compromise. For some reason people seem to forget everything ever is a compromise.

/thread

How can you be the pinnacle when you dont even have antilock brakes? If F1 takes a couple more steps backwards they will be running carburetors

You could probably count the number of times you've relied your ABS in your road car on one hand. It literally only activates properly when you REALLY need to stop and tbh you probably wouldn't even notice if you didn't have it.

[Jolle]

I say non-USA only because, for the most part, US drivers tend not to aspire, or at least progress, to F1. The US has its own home-grown open-wheeled series with its own superstars.

Well... don't know if they don't aspire F1... many of them raced in Europe or tried for F1 for a while or even raced there.

[Just_a_fan]

You could probably count the number of times you've relied your ABS in your road car on one hand. It literally only activates properly when you REALLY need to stop and tbh you probably wouldn't even notice if you didn't have it.

On a road car you don't try for maximum retardation at every application of the brakes. On a racing car, you would activate the ABS every time because you'd get maximum possible retardation every time. Likewise TC on the exit - you would just floor the throttle and let the TC sort it out, especially in the wet.

If you added ABS and TC to current F1 cars, overtaking would be even harder than it is now. ABS and TC would also reduce the advantage of the "rain masters".

Senna's win in Donnington in the wet is held up as a god-like performance by some. Senna didn't rate it highly because he had ABS and TC. That speaks volumes.

[Stormy]

F1 is definitely the pinnacle of motorsport technology and maybe close to the pinnacle of automotive technology. In what other car you can find a more technologically developed hybrid engine? In what other car you can find more complex aero? These cars produce tons of downforce.

[marmer]

Also to add the suspension is very highly developed and constantly evolving new ways to get more mechanical grip. For a system that's not allowed to be adjusted on the fly as well. Would be even further along if not for the current regs but still top level

[krisfx]

You could probably count the number of times you've relied your ABS in your road car on one hand. It literally only activates properly when you REALLY need to stop and tbh you probably wouldn't even notice if you didn't have it.

On a road car you don't try for maximum retardation at every application of the brakes. On a racing car, you would activate the ABS every time because you'd get maximum possible retardation every time. Likewise TC on the exit - you would just floor the throttle and let the TC sort it out, especially in the wet.

If you added ABS and TC to current F1 cars, overtaking would be even harder than it is now. ABS and TC would also reduce the advantage of the "rain masters".

Senna's win in Donnington in the wet is held up as a god-like performance by some. Senna didn't rate it highly because he had ABS and TC. That speaks volumes.

Just for the record, I was agreeing with the point that they're useless.. I was just making the point that ABS on a road car has no bearing on whether F1 is the pinnacle anymore

[DiogoBrand]

TL;DR:
"Formula one is not good because it isn't they way I think it should be"

A million people will have a million different ideas of what F1 should be, if you're not happy with how it is, don't watch it.

There should be a section of the forum just for this kind of thread, and another one for "Formula one is crap and will never be as good as it was in the past, but still I watch it every weekend".

[VivecF1]

It's always a difficult subject.
Personally, I'd love to see jetfighter-cars with all the stuff that they can think of on them...
But 2 seconds later, I realise that that would destroy the sport. Regulations are required to keep some form of honest competition.
Although the active suspension on the Williams years back was a true stroke of genious and a beautiful concept, it made everyone else look bad and in another league...

There's too much at stake to let imagination run free. And that a pity sometimes...

It is still the pinnacle however. Managing the very most with the regulations given!