Saddam Dead

[Tom]

It's very funny, this topic was started with an announcment that the former leader of Iraq is dead. Now it is an argument about whether America is a good country or not.

allan, I found your post esspecially interesting, so far we have only seen the point of veiw that Saddam was a man capable of no good, yet here you say he saved many many people, sure he has committed so much evil in this world, however to some people he is a hero and savior for all the good things he did. Let us remember him for this and not his cruel tyranny.

[tomislavp4]

Yeah, let´s just remember him (for good or bad it´s your choise) and get back to the four wheels

[Ray]

While we are at it, let's remember Adolf Hitler for the good things he did. He only tried to eradicate the Jews, but he did make a mighty fine German facist. On the other note, tomislavp4 is right, let's get back to the four wheel stuff. I like that better!

[Scuderia_Russ]

name one war that took place without the americans being involved in it... NONE!!!

er, the 100 years war.
sorry, couldn't resist.

...they wouldn't have been involved in World War two either if it wasn't for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbour.

[DaveKillens]

Let me ask you guys this. Where were the navies of the 11 Indian ocean countries, hit by the tsunami in 2004, when the US was hit by Katrina? Nowhere to be found. Where were any countries in Europe? Where was Australias Navy helicopters? Where was the UN? NOWHERE! None of you helped us. You sat back and pointed fingers and laughed. We are obligated to help every single person and every single country that is in europe. We saved Europe with the help of a few other countries and we get the french telling US we are the bad guys? Please.

Ray, I do understand some of your frustration, but please remember your government's foreign policies almost always seem to make enemies. Very little consideration for long range effects when making friends with anti-communist dictators. And although you have incredible news services, they run the full spectrum of disinformation, by ignoring many good things that shed a poor light on the administration. When 911 happened, every emergency, burn, and elective surgery unit in all the major hospitals here in Toronto shut down in preparation for treating the victims. Hundreds of emergency professionals immediately flocked to NY, offering their services freely. When Katrina struck the same thing happened, but sadly, almost every one was turned back at the border because of their paramilitary appearance, and Homeland Security was paranoid. But we did help.
http://www.dnd.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1739
We could have been bitter and said no, considering how poorly Canada and Canadians have been treated by the US since our refusal to join in with the invasion of Iraq. But neighbours help, and we did.

As far as Sadam Hussein, most likely he was a bad man and if anyone deserved to die it was him. But he never enjoyed any kind of a fair trial, and his death solves nothing.

[DaveKillens]

Let me ask you guys this. Where were the navies of the 11 Indian ocean countries, hit by the tsunami in 2004, when the US was hit by Katrina? Nowhere to be found. Where were any countries in Europe? Where was Australias Navy helicopters? Where was the UN? NOWHERE! None of you helped us. You sat back and pointed fingers and laughed. We are obligated to help every single person and every single country that is in europe. We saved Europe with the help of a few other countries and we get the french telling US we are the bad guys? Please.

Ray, I do understand some of your frustration, but please remember your government's foreign policies almost always seem to make enemies. Very little consideration for long range effects when making friends with anti-communist dictators. And although you have incredible news services, they run the full spectrum of disinformation, by ignoring many good things that shed a poor light on the administration. When 911 happened, every emergency, burn, and elective surgery unit in all the major hospitals here in Toronto shut down in preparation for treating the victims. Hundreds of emergency professionals immediately flocked to NY, offering their services freely. When Katrina struck the same thing happened, but sadly, almost every one was turned back at the border because of their paramilitary appearance, and Homeland Security was paranoid. But we did help.
http://www.dnd.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1739
We could have been bitter and said no, considering how poorly Canada and Canadians have been treated by the US since our refusal to join in with the invasion of Iraq. But neighbours help, and we did.

As far as Sadam Hussein, most likely he was a bad man and if anyone deserved to die it was him. But he never enjoyed any kind of a fair trial, and his death solves nothing.

[Spyker MF1]

...they wouldn't have been involved in World War two either if it wasn't for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbour.

Yea and the war was already won because Hitler got greedy and fought on two fronts and against the Ruskies in winter. But on the subject of WW2 I'd just like to point out the Germans done nothing wrong it was the fault of an Austrian(I like to point that out as a lot of people I know are to iggnorant and blame the Germans)

On Topic.
The invasion of Iraq was a farce in the fear they were going to lower the export of oil. And Blair being as stupid as Bush followed him into it blind

[Carlos]

Socrates - "Only the dead have seen the end of war."

[manchild]

Saddam being killed is what US should have done without invading Iraq. He had hired look-alikes, so what? Even if he had 10 or 100 of them, 10 or 100 air strikes would get the job done and there wouldn't be over 100.000 dead Iraqis so far.

I'm sure that CIA can eliminate ANY person on this planet regardless on security measures and I haven't heard about a single assassination attempt of Saddam in the previous 15 years or so.

He deserved worse punishment than hanging - death is what all of us will face but there were other ways of punishment much suitable for such people.

Bottom line - there are no good guys in that war...

[Ray]

True manchild, air strikes could have done the job. But over here in America, when we hit with air strikes we kill 'civilians', while terrorist and the like kill 'noncombatants'. So that would have done nothing really. Plus the uproar about killing an innocent look alike would have gotten the US reputation creamed in the world press. But with all this hatred towards us the world over in the media right now, it wouldn't have made any difference. As for no good guys in that war, yes there are. The men in Iraq being murdered in the streets trying to sign up to be policemen, not to mention the women and children standing in markets trying to get food, and the military servicemen from the world ARE good. They are being murdered by others. Yet no one cries foul about that as much as what horrible, horrible things we are doing to the Iraqi people. Unlike Tom thinks, we are not wandering around in the desert shooting at random people. We are doing our best to get rid of these people every day. Why kill them all over the world as they set bombs off than sucker them into Iraq and kill them there? Surely no one wants another bus bombing in London, or a train explosion in Madrid? I know they aren't fighting in my country, but I went to another to make sure they wouldn't attack ANY other country. Or tried to at least, our politicians and other world politicians seem to think this is not a problem that needs to be resolved.

[Spyker MF1]

Has anyone else noticed that the way the yanks have held this all in such a farsicale way is just a case of "team america" coming true for more than the first time?[/img]

[f1.redbaron]

Funny how most of them don't even participate in the war themselves...

Did you hear what Matt Damon said about Bush's daughters?

[West]

Funny how most of them don't even participate in the war themselves...

Did you hear what Matt Damon said about Bush's daughters?

I just read a little bit... about they should go to Iraq. But the army is strictly volunteer, and after reading articles about it online, it's possible he's suggesting a draft.

He made a more memorable appearance in Team America, tho. Maaahht Daaaamon

[Ray]

Who cares what fu*king Matt Damon says. He thinks they should go, he should follow his own advice. Movie actors should not have a voice in this country in that form. He has no right to tell people who should and shouldn't go unless he's gone himself. He needs to shut his da*n mouth, and so does every other celebrity acting like they care about other people. He talks about a fighting class, is he in it? No. That's why he says what he does because he knows that he'll never have to sacrifice anything for this country. Idiot.

[manchild]

As for no good guys in that war, yes there are. The men in Iraq being murdered in the streets trying to sign up to be policemen, not to mention the women and children standing in markets trying to get food, and the military servicemen from the world ARE good.

This leads into discussion but I'll say that same innocent man and woman on the streets have been killed by US forces since the beginning of the operation. They are victims indeed and double victims as they get killed by both sides.

To be considered as liberator in one country you got to have support of population while it is clear that US Army is no longer welcomed at all. It was welcomed but what it did since 2003 was outrageous. Whole policy towards Iraq was like this - we'll capture and hang Saddam and for that cause it isn't important how many thousands of innocent people or troops will die.

What US done in Iraq was similar to burning down whole building to get rid of few rats. Like "woo-hoo...we've hanged Saddam, what an achievement". And while that was the top news for few hours news that tens of innocent victims and several soldiers died in new car bombings.

Where's the success in that?

Bush is acting like he did in first few minutes aster he heard of 9/11 - panicking and trying to find easy solution in his empty head and the truth is that this is going to end up like Vietnam with huge money made by arms manufacturers and oil companies. For them every day in Iraq brought millions.
...
Someone mentioned re-introduction of draft in US. Well, if that happens we're facing either revival of the '60s with positive outcome or end of the world. I'd really like to know how many Americans would like to be drafted in order to feed car bombs in Iraq. That's really what parents are raising their children for - to be blown away by some religious fanatic for the sake of bank accounts of conservative fascists who are keeping their fat asses deep inside their luxuriously world like such kind of people has always done trough the history.

I agree that Saddam deserved to be hanged but didn't Bush deserve the same? If there was justice he'd hang just for leaving black population or New Orleans to starve to death without any help for days while his dogs of war were spending millions to keep the oil running from Iraq.

There are no soldieries in this war to feel sorry for. Paid dogs of war are not drafted American boys from the Vietnam but dogs of war who are killing for money and terrorists and fanatics are terrorists and fanatics.

Movie actors should not have a voice in this country in that form.

[img::]http://www.wildestwesterns.com/images/i ... reagan.jpg[/img]