Just have a look here for a (reasonably) well balanced view of how much oil there is;
http://www.ogp.org.uk/pubs/385.pdf
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Mac, Nigeria first president, elected in 2004, after 15 years of military rule, preceded by 13 years of another military rule, is the same guy that was dictator in the 70's. In heaven's name, the country still lacks a constitution!mcdenife wrote:ciro wrote:
Nigeria has a democratically elected government. and whilst I agree opec control supply and therefore indirectly prices, I really cannot see why you find OPEC countries being independent a hard proposition to swallow. Or do you mean to imply that oil companies set/fix oil prices indirectly?
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I don't imply anything. I state clearly that the majority of OPEC "rulers dinasties" have been put in place or consolidated by the american, british, french and dutch governments with the intervention of their respective oil companies and this is an historic fact.Wikipedia wrote:This is despite continuing calls for a Sovereign National Conference to discern the genuine will of the people, which the president has deftly sidestepped for eight years, as well as widespread disputes and ethnic violence over the oil producing land of the Niger Delta.
I don't know in your country, but in mine that's a price cartel.OPEC wrote:OPEC’s mission is to coordinate & unify the petroleum policies of Member Countries & ensure the stabilization of oil prices in order to secure an efficient, economic & regular supply of petroleum to consumers, a steady income to producers & a fair return on capital to those investing in the petroleum industry.
I don't know in your country, but in mine that's a price cartel.
Timeline Nigeria:Mac, Nigeria first president, elected in 2004, after 15 years of military rule, preceded by 13 years of another military rule, is the same guy that was dictator in the 70's. In heaven's name, the country still lacks a constitution!
May be. But this preceeded the formation of OPEC by which time said govts/system either no longer existed or the relationship with the oil companies changed and with it their influence. Whereas before, the oil belonged to the company which bought or leased the land, it now belonged to the respective countries/dynasties. In short the countries nationalised the oil and in some cases the companies so that they now had the power/control over this resource and could set quotas etc. The shoe, as was said, was now on the other foot.I don't imply anything. I state clearly that the majority of OPEC "rulers dinasties" have been put in place or consolidated by the american, british, french and dutch governments with the intervention of their respective oil companies and this is an historic fact.
I dont know what list you were refering to. What I wrote are from facts as I know and remember them to be and yes may be not a bastion democracy, but then we are not talking about bastions of democracy are we? Rather, whether it is or not a democracy now.mac: I read the same list this morning. Not precisely a bastion of democracy.
I should have given the link where I read that bit about the constitution: "CNN: Building credibility without a constitution".
Of course, if a "Transition to Civil Rule" document written by the previous dictator, Mr. Abdulsalami Abubakar, qualifies as one... then they have one. I wonder what Mr. Thomas Jefferson, who I admire so much, would have thought of that.
Who knows but you cannot therefore conclude that oil companies fix/set prices from this.Well, mac, I don't know if you feel these guys are getting a "fair return on their investment". Surely I won't trust them the keys to hell, but I wonder if they could have taken a bribe or two from Exxon... but if you assure me they haven't I'll believe you: I've already said I think you're a smart man.
Reformed from what being being a farmer? I dont understand.Of course, you could be right and Mr. Obasanjo may have reformed... he should have learnt something from the Biafra war, when 1 million people died and were "starved into submission". I was 9 years old when I saw the pictures of that war and I have not forgotten them... imagine the guy, that participated in it.
Oh, so you accept it does have a constitution?The Nigerian "constitution" forbids the General Assembly (the Congress) from making laws on:
"1. Accounts of the Government of the Federation, and of offices, courts, and authorities thereof, including audit of those accounts."
And, OF COURSE...
"39. Mines and minerals, including oil fields, oil mining, geological surveys and natural gas."
What it forbids or not is irrelevant what is important is that it has one, call it a starting point. But as I am sure you know, a constitution evolves no?Nice constitution. The list of "forbidden matters" to legislate on has 69 points! I wonder what you call a democracy, let me tell you.
Not sure what makes this a pearl but I am sure you will tell us the about the hows and whys of the local petroleum market and its pricing structure. What I do know is that its gas prices are heavily subsidised.There are other pearls:
"None of the country's four oil refineries are operational, forcing Nigeria to import petroleum and pricing it beyond the reach of most."
Yeah, where I buy my coffee, it is about $2.00. This whole thing with the cream and sugar is, kind of my point. Shell buys their oil from - I'm gonna use one of Bushisms and call them - the axis of evil. Then, from the moment the crude oil is bought, to the moment I put gasoline into my gas tank, oil companies have spent boatloads of money on anything from transporting that crude oil (those tankers and their crews can't be cheap), to offloading it, refining, etc, etc. Pretty soon, oil no longer cost them $X dollars/barrel, but $X+other expenses. So, to compensate, they charge me whatever they charge me at the gas stations. And I'm OK with that concept.Mikey_s wrote:F1,
no offence taken at this end
Just to throw a couple more apples and oranges into the discussion; when (if) you ever visit Starbucks just think of the markup, it's been a while since I bought a coffee in Starbucks, but last time it was about $2 for a cofee; OK, I had a splash of creamer in it, but how many cups do you get for a pound of coffee... that's what I call fleecing the punter; hell gasoline is cheap compared to coffee, or beer!! (and you don't need a huge piece of kit called arefinery to produce coffee.