Todt resigns as Ferrari CEO

[ben_watkins]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Todt elected as the FIA boss, keeping the traditional Ferrari bias within the FIA..

[DaveKillens]

Much as I hate to admit it, to me Todt is the best choice to replace Mosley.
Currently, Todt still has some power and duties in Ferrari, but his sphere of influence is definitely smaller. And that brings me to Massa, who was brought in by Todt, and just recently had his contract renewed by Todt. So it's really questionable if Massa will survive the post-Todt era in Ferrari.

[RH1300S]

I agree - Todt would be a very good candidate for the top job.

Set aside the Ferrari bias hsyteria for a bit.

He is clearly well equipped for the role and he gives everything to his job. Before Ferrari - you must remember he was exactly the same for whoever he worked for. I'd call it utter devotion and loyalty to his employer - something to be admired.

I suspect the traits that made him so annoying while at Ferrari will prove to be strengths when working for the sport as a whole.

[P_O_L]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Todt elected as the FIA boss, keeping the traditional Ferrari bias within the FIA..

Unsubstantiated negative anti-ferrari rubbish.

Should i remind you on the grey and black team who ended last in the constructorschampionship, and should occupy the last small, humiliating and cramped pitbox but got put into the 5th by the FIA?

[NickT]

The turnover has been enormous and the team should be praised for having maintained its momentum and stayed at the very top of F1.

Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, Paolo Martinelli, Michael Schumacher, Nigel Stepney, Jean Todt. Has ANY team ever lost so many top quality people in such a short period of time.

They were a fantastic group of people who made amazing things happen at Ferrari, but I think their legacy will be written in the following years. They had been planning for their inevitable stepping down for many years, putting in place the enviroment where their replacements could be be nurtured and allowed to grow into and fill the void they would leave. If Farrari can maintain its position at the front of the field without self destructing in it own legendary internal politics, then Ross, Rory, Paolo, Michael, Nigel, Jean and Co will have created something extremely special

[Ciro Pabón]

I fail to see the rubbish, P_O_L.

As you point out, FIA is dominated by large teams. Don't tell me this comes as a surprise to you.

So, if you're going to complain, complain in the name of Force India, Super Aguri and STR. Certainly Ferrari is dominant when FIA political side shines, but that's like saying that the sun will rise in the east.

Of course (duh!) the italians push like demons for their political side and the british racing industry pushes as hard toward their side, I don't expect less from them. If I were a Ferrari fan, I would be singing joyously and hoping nobody notices, not pointing to other teams the miserable advantages that they have got.

As DaveKillens wisely points out, well, some of us think that Mr. Todt is the best around.

If that's the case, if Mr. Todt wishes to do that, if he nominates himself, if he gets the presidency, which is a long list of ifs, then good luck for Mr. Todt, who I don't know if is the exact person to take FIA into the 22th century, but, hey, we have time until then, don't we?

He seems decent and good humoured, two qualities that are hard to find in the paddock (and anywhere, btw). That could only spell good news for the sport, the alternatives I can think of are less palatable.

After all, curiously, I'd say that Todt is seen as a "neutral" person, at least I do. Try to imagine any other team boss (Briatore comes to my mind) postulated and then, evaluate his neutrality... Todt is miles ahead.

You have to be a great man to get that kind of reputation, even with the failures we all have (and that I'm sure somebody with lesser reputation will point out).

On the other hand, do you think that a 5th position in the paddock compares with getting a PRESIDENT of FIA? C'mon, you must be broken if you're used to make barters like that...

I'm sure McLaren team would use happily the last garage (I would!) in exchange for Ron Dennis getting the presidency of our beloved Federation de l'Automobile. That day, oh, man, that day I would like to read Ferrari's diehards posts and McLaren's fans in its entirety. Thank heaven I'm rooting for Super Aguri (excuse me, Magna, you know how life is when you are a fan of the "small part" of the grid: these days you have to change the banners every year).

[P_O_L]

Im amazed at your post ciro, really am.

You of all people, should know the writings in the concorde agreement, wich in the end, demans unanimity of ALL teams to make the slightest change. I remember it well when paul stoddart threatened to blow up the championship because he didnt get more money, money wich was promised by dennis c.s. He couldv done so by stating the championship was illegal as cars where running with TC wich was outlwaed by rule, but allowed in a gentlemans agreement.

There was also the case of Force india previous owner spyker to blow up the championship and threatening with a lawsuit if bernie didnt stop the customer car teams. The lawsuit was only stopped because of a (large) payment by ecclestone and in teh end it looks to me the customer teams are gone by 2010.

Then there is the explanation of Brawn on the rumours of the supposed ferrari biased FIA end of 2004:"the new rule regulations are not helping Ferrari in one bit'. Theirs was a team wich was beating everybody and didnt need change at all. The rev limit was much more of a help to mercedes ilmor with their feeble blowing v10s than the mighty ferrari engines. The change to V8 was also a much bigger advantage for mercedes since they build V8 race engines for DTM than ferrari, who didnt have any experience.

Mclaren was facing exclusion of both the wcc and the drivers, for both 2007 and 2008 for the spygate affair. In the end they only had to give back the wcc points of 2007. This, because dictator Ecclestone 'battled to keep their drivers in the championship running'.

But aside from that, since everybody likes to have a dig at the best team in F1, it remains unsubstantiated to say the FIA is biased to ferrari and not come up with one example. Knowing Ben, he probably wont say why exactly he thinks like that. But you can always suprise me.

[NickT]

Ferrari are paid a very large additional payment every year, that no other team receives, just to race in F1. This was brokered by Bernie and Max. Super Aguri wouldn't have had to worry about a rouge title sponsor not paying his bills last year if they had the same funds. They could have doubled last years development budget, attended every pre-season test and still had money left over for a good holiday at the end of the season

Then lets just see how opportune it was to Ferrari when Renault were romping away with both championships and were then suddenly found to have their mass damper suspension system, which they had legally run for 18 months, suddenly outlawed as an movable aerodynamic device!

POL wake up and smell the roses, take off the rose tinted spectacles, put the mandolin down and start taking a balanced view on the sport. Because the chip on your shoulder and your lawyers' method of arguing black is white, despite all the evidence to the contrary, is sending you round and round in ever decreasing circles and digging you a great big hole for one.

Alternatively, just bury your head in the sand again and just tell us all again that Ferrari receive no extra assistance!

[P_O_L]

Gee, i didnt know that. Just how much exactly is ferrari being given each year? And where can i find that rule in the FIA rulebook? Many apologies for sticking my head in the sand and following paranoid ideas...

[Steven]

Gee, i didnt know that. Just how much exactly is ferrari being given each year? And where can i find that rule in the FIA rulebook? Many apologies for sticking my head in the sand and following paranoid ideas...

I'm not sure of the amount, but I think that Ferrari gets 10% more than its regular calculated share of TV rights that is handed out to the teams. Taking such into account, you can easily say that Ferrari is counted for 2 teams by the FIA. Whatever way you rotate it, Ferrari is vital for F1 according to the FIA and they are greatly awarded for it.

[P_O_L]

I dont buy it Tomba. Teams are getting money on their previous years result in the standings and not just bcs they are in F1 and a long time history. The reward for winning was improved recently and is now in the region of 100 million dollars. Perhaps you are confusing it with that?

Anyway, i could be that i missed some information or a rulechange or a reference from some media publication. If you have a link or can quote ecclestone or mosley id be very gratefull. Untill then i dont believe such stories

[NickT]

Still think that running an F1 team is a financial liability? Well, it is for most teams, but not for Ferrari. Although financial arrangements in Formula One remain highly secretive, motorsport financial report Formula Money accounts that the Scuderia received a record payout of $100 million from Bernie Ecclestone's Formula One Management (FOM).

The high payout is due in part to the new profit-sharing agreement between FOM and the teams, by which the constructors share 50% of the profits from television broadcasts, trackside advertising and corporate hospitality. That's compared to the previous prize pot based on 47% of just the TV rights. Ferrari's record nine-figure payout is reported to be divided between $68.9 million for having won the constructors' championship last year and the $33.3 million final installment of the $100m signing bonus for committing to the sport through 2012, which Ferrari signed in 2005. The cash from FOM, however, seems like pocket change compared to what Ferrari is estimated to pull in this year from sponsors like Marlboro and Shell: last year Ferrari made $183m in sponsorship, which is only expected to have increased following the team's double championship last year.

Source: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/08/scud ... ge-needed/

[Rob W]

...Teams are getting money on their previous years result in the standings and not just bcs they are in F1 and a long time history. The reward for winning was improved recently and is now in the region of 100 million dollars. Perhaps you are confusing it with that?

It is absolutely known that Ferrari are paid an extra bonus figure on top of the calculated split of the team's share of revenue. I have seen Bernie talk about it previously, perfectly justifying it with the logic that any team could leave F1 on and it would retain it's global status. Except Ferrari. Ferrari bring an extra glamour and prestige, especially in Europe, which people don't associate with other teams.

One key concern of the manufacturers association when they threatened to start their own racing series was the cut of the revenue which goes to the teams and how equitably it was split. At the time I think Ford (and another team - I forgot) voiced their opinion over the extra Ferrari was given to be involved... and Bernie had the comeback I stated above.

Many sports offer top competitors bonuses and appearance fees (tennis, golf, athletics, boxing etc) which often make the prize money pale in comparison. F1 knows its market well - and how much having Ferrari involved means.

R

[Carlos]

I've just had time to skim the exacting posts of P_O_L and have noticed a pattern of challenge for authentication of fact which is not reciprocated in that his statements are not accompanied by reference, which is confusing, considering his habitual, constant appeal/standard -- called "SHOW ME" I do hope members will desist from all such submissions exhibiting this repeated....AHHH insufficiency of authoritative documentation ( Yeah - Thats the Ticket )
I am very sure P_O_L will happily document all further statements contributed to the F1Technical Forum. I do hope he will excuse me from responding to any and all of his future requests, as this one time submission is only intended as an example of research that I am very sure will prompt him to offer sources for his every opinion. May I draw the Forum's attention to my body of posts offering particular attention to the effectiveness of sighting original material. May I say I very much admire P_O_L's rejection of empty braggadocio for fact, a member that is certainly a credit to the F1Technical Forum.


Ferrari Revenue Parcel 2007 -- 100M CORRECT P_O_L
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/08/scud ... ge-needed/
http://www.formulamoney.com/


Please note that annum duration is delineated as a variable of renumeration.

Q: How much do the teams get for winning races?
A: The FIA doesn't get involved in money, which is controlled by
Bernie through what used to be called FOCA. I believe that the
Concorde Agreement describes the "prize money" for each race,
and I think there are payments for the leading teams at quarter,
half, three-quarter and full distance. Maybe something for most
laps led too?


The revenue from TV rights is partially distributed to teams using
a points system derived from historical performances. As I understand
it points are awarded for:


* Placing in the constructor's championship (last 3 years)
* Number of years in F1 (1 year = 4 points, 10 years = 165 points
[Ferrari 50 yrs = 1200 points])
* Constructor's titles (25 points each)
* Constructor's championship points (last 2 years x 2)
* " " 2 (all-time / 10)
* Number of wins (last 2 years, 10 points each)
* All-time number of wins (1 point each)


Teams with points get a proportional share of the money. There is
also a separate pool of money distributed based on the previous
years constructor's championship. The *size* of the total payout
(reportedly 47% of TV revenues, nothing from the sanctioning fees
and other income realized by Bernie) was one of the issues behind
the breakaway manufacturers' movement (see next question).
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.auto ... fd7f444af2
EDIT - Personal opinion removed.

Please note this post makes no reference to factual bonus renumeration offered Ferrari although it may suggest that this formula is a partial accounting of Television Revenue distribution and that additional monies are given to The Red Squad

The revenue from TV rights is PARTIALY DISTRIBUTED to teams using
a points system derived from historical performances. As I understand
it points are awarded for:

[Ciro Pabón]

Im amazed at your post ciro, really am.

Glad to be of help.

I'm not falling into your trick, dear P_O_L. If you wish me to make a list of things made by FIA that favors Ferrari, well, you looked for the wrong guy. I have too many friends that are fans of Ferrari, as I have too many friends that are fans of McLaren.

If you wish, you can google for "Ferrari bias FIA" and plenty, plenty of articles and inane threads, like the one your posts propose, will pop out. How about the two Ferrari employees that received suspended sentences for passing data to Toyota last April? Any fuss from FIA about that?

The only way I could do something with that sugerence of yours is to make a list of ALL favoritisms that involve ALL teams. I wonder if the server could resist it...

This thread, in case you haven't noticed, is NOT about McLaren. Gosh.