Another black day for the refuelling rig

[axle]

I would like to know why the mechanics are allowed to run down an active pitlane!! How dangerous was that! With cars coming in and out during such a busy period this seems like an incredibly dangerous thing to do, and it could have cost another driver valuable time if they had impeded/been collected by him.

[Ciro Pabón]

Every time there has been a problem with the rig, we've suggested at this site to put some switch at the hose intake that kills the clutch until the hose is retired. A day to forget at Maranello.

[myurr]

Or use pneumatic jacks to lift the car whilst the fuel hose is attached. Gets rid of two more people in the pit lane making it a little less congested.

[Rob W]

All the suggestions about technology that could be used to prevent this sort of thing... sort of miss the point. It happened because of basic human error. If drivers have to pay attention and concentrate the entire race to prevent hitting a wall or rear-ending another car then surely the pit crew can practice their job and hone it to a fine art as well for the 15 seconds they're on deck.

To use some sort of blanket technology to prevent this happening would just negate the efficient running of a pit-box for the teams who get it right and who deserve to gain the advantage of doing so. Moreso, any new technology would surely open up untold other potential technical issues.

Massa left early because their fandangled release system failed them. The fuel rig jammed because it was yanked hard sideways.. it didn't happen because the fuel rig jammed - that was just a knock-on effect.

R

[oj1983]

Why has nobody realised that when massa took the fuel rig with him he was pitting under the safety car?! Even if the mechanics had got to him 30 seconds earlier everyone else would have still been out the pits so massa still would've been at the back. All that would have happened was he would've caught up to the back of the que behind the safety car 30 seconds sooner! He would still have been last!

[Miguel]

Or use pneumatic jacks to lift the car whilst the fuel hose is attached. Gets rid of two more people in the pit lane making it a little less congested.

That would effectively end with pitting just for tires. This happens every race (Q3) at least once and happens again when it starts raining at the end of the GP.

Why has nobody realised that when massa took the fuel rig with him he was pitting under the safety car?! Even if the mechanics had got to him 30 seconds earlier everyone else would have still been out the pits so massa still would've been at the back. All that would have happened was he would've caught up to the back of the que behind the safety car 30 seconds sooner! He would still have been last!

Massa was ahead of Hamilton, and he would have exited the pits in front of him. Remember Hamilton watched how Massa was dragging the fuel rig.

[Ray]

Massa left early because their fandangled release system failed them.
R

I swear I read somewhere the light turned green because the refueling guy hit the 'okay' button on the hose connector too early. I can't remember where I read it, have to dig it up.

I say they do like NASCAR. Change the tires on one side of the car at a time, and have gravity fed refuelers. If they even need to refuel at all. Not trying to say that NASCAR is equal to/ better than F1, it would just cut down on persons on pit road and stop the 'hurry up' factor when refueling. Plus if they pulled the fuel rig off too early and the valve stuck they wouldn
t be spraying pressurized fuel everywhere.

[bazanaius]

They don't tend to spray fuel anywhere when released anyway (although I think the german(?) gp had something going on).

I agree that it seems human error is mostly to play here - If you yank on a fuel line with 750bhp (units are a bit wonky but forgive me :-p) it'll bend something. The dude pressed his button too quickly, and massa rightly exited the box.

I'm just glad no-one got hurt during the incidents at the weekend. This is the third or fourth time this season we've seen a guy driven over or pulled over by a fecking heavy fuel line. I think this is something that the teams SHOULD be fined for as it is unsafe practice.

[WhiteBlue]

Ferrari confirmed the human error. The release was not on automatic. Instead of finding solutions to a messed up problem they should avoid refuelling all together.

[Project Four]

Confirming WhiteBlue,

Ferrari had overridden their automated traffic light system, because of the number of cars in the pits and was operating the system manually and one mechanic on the release button pressed it too early. Looks like they were running manually as did not want to release Massa into the front of another car in the pits.

It now looks like the FIA are going to ban the system on safety grounds after the problems here and at Valencia.

[Ray]

I agree that Ferrari effed up like hell. for all the observers on 30 computers they have, the TV viewers knew much earlier than the mechanics that Massa was parked on the end of the pit lane with a hose still attached waiting for help. why did none of the bigshot at the command center oder at least one man to go there immediately? now they will be telling us the usual bull about a big review on monday. the truth is that Ferrari has turned headless chickens again.

Because during a safety car period there are many if not all cars in pitlane and it's extremely dangerous to have mechanics running around down pit lane after a car. Not to mention that they aren't allowed over the widest white line, cars only over that line, and that they can't just start running through other teams pit stalls disrupting thier stops and creating a dangerous stiuation by introducing a person that team is not expecting nor has control over. They had to wait for Massa to get down to the end of pit lane and stop, wait till they were finished with Kimi, wait for pit lane to be clear of all cars, and then they ran down pit lane.

Yeah they effed up with the light being tripped early and causing the hose to be ripped off, but they were extremely smart in not overreacting and having people run willy nilly down the pit lane and not finishing thier stop with Kimi as well. Say what you will about the hose being ripped off, but they did the right thing in waiting till pit lane was completely clear before going after Massa.

[alexbarwell]

From previous strands, this 'semi-automatic' system of ferrari's is not fundamentally fail-safe as has been proven on a couple of obvious occasions. Other teams use the 'lollipop' man as an overall check with less issues. Admitted cases in the past when the guy has lifted early, but the failure rate seems to be a lot lower. Ferrari should be forced to drop this system as causing incidents (and losing race points in the process)

[donskar]

If Mosley were not corrupt to the core, he would reduce costs, increase safety, and be more ecologically "green" by banning pit stops for any but extraordinary circumstances (puncture, accident damage, etc). No refueling, no tire changes (except for punctures or rain, of course), no expensive refueling rigs, no risk of fire, no expensive pit crew armies, no mountains of tires at every race, reduced travel expenses, etc, etc, etc.

I'm sure all of you can think of even more positives inherent in non-stop races.

In terms of pure racing, there is no need for stops. They are only with us in order to create spectacle and to artificially create some scintilla of chance that positions at the front will change. If not for pit stops, viewership among the majority of viewers would plummet around half distance or so.

IMHO, of course!

[Saribro]

If not for pit stops, viewership among the majority of viewers would plummet around half distance or so.

I'd say the reverse, you'd watch qualy and check the last 3rd of the race in case something unusual happened :).

[Rob W]

Because during a safety car period there are many if not all cars in pitlane and it's extremely dangerous to have mechanics running around down pit lane after a car......

I agree in some ways but not completely. There are tons of people in the pit lane already - including a number of cameramen, photographers and marshalls. A couple of guys running down the pit lane isn't going to cause trouble as long as they keep their eyes open. There is more room than you might think in the pits. I've been in F1 pits a number of times and always think they are heaps bigger than they appear on TV.

Likewise, they don't just have the people who worked on Massa's car then working on Kimi's, they have a dozen other people at least ready to roll with spare fuel, tires etc. Plenty of people there and with headsets on in full contact with everyone.

Interestingly, Ferrari's preferential pit position was the worst possible place for this incident. If they'd been at the other end they would have saved well over 30 seconds.

R