Another black day for the refuelling rig

[WhiteBlue]

This is the second time this season that we see massive problems with the refuelling rig when it is hot.

Rubens rig failed to work and left him stranded on the track in a dangerous position.

Massa had a catastrophic failure which turned lucky in the end because there could have been a massive fire in the pits when he left with the fuel hose trailing.

Coulthard had the same problem with the rig but managed to realize after 3 m that the rig wasn't detached and stopped again.

It is time that the FIA takes Intertechnique to court over this or decide to finsh with refuelling.

[timbo]

It is time that the FIA takes Intertechnique to court over this or decide to finsh with refuelling.

Yes, this also got me thinking. I guess QC is really bad on manufacturer's side. Massa's accident was clearly a sensor that checks rig position fault.

[myurr]

It is time that the FIA takes Intertechnique to court over this or decide to finsh with refuelling.

Yes, this also got me thinking. I guess QC is really bad on manufacturer's side. Massa's accident was clearly a sensor that checks rig position fault.

Isn't that a Ferrari specific sensor? So Massa's incident wasn't the fuel rigs fault.

I honestly cannot remember if DC was released early or not - I'm not sure we could see from the camera angle.

That said I still think that for racing reasons they should do away with refueling. Would help with the SC rules as well.

[WhiteBlue]

oops, I read that Rubens got fuel but suffered an electrical problem. in the race it loked like he wasn't fuelled.

Both Massa and DC were clearly failures of the rig to detatch in the first place. It has happened so often over the past years. when will they loose patience with these poorly designed riggs.

[timbo]

It is time that the FIA takes Intertechnique to court over this or decide to finsh with refuelling.

Yes, this also got me thinking. I guess QC is really bad on manufacturer's side. Massa's accident was clearly a sensor that checks rig position fault.

Isn't that a Ferrari specific sensor? So Massa's incident wasn't the fuel rigs fault.

Maybe, however, I'm not sure that such modification is possible. I think they use data feed from sensor that is already installed. There should be a sensor to cut fuel etc...

[myurr]

Maybe, however, I'm not sure that such modification is possible. I think they use data feed from sensor that is already installed. There should be a sensor to cut fuel etc...

The commentators referred to a switch the refueller has to press or trigger somehow - so it is a manual indicator not an automatic sensor. If true it would also make it possible to be a Ferrari specific modification, as I suspect.

[myurr]

oops, I read that Rubens got fuel but suffered an electrical problem. in the race it loked like he wasn't fuelled.

Both Massa and DC were clearly failures of the rig to detatch in the first place. It has happened so often over the past years. when will they loose patience with these poorly designed riggs.

Yeah at first I thought it was a fuel related issue as he'd just pitted and the commentators said that he'd suddenly lost drive but they later stated that it was mechanical not fuel.

I don't know what triggered the switch on the Ferrari fuel rig but it didn't look like they'd even tried to pull off the rig when Massa was given the green light.

I'm not sure about the DC incident but it is likely that what you say is correct.

[pgj]

The Ferrari Traffic Light System is a classic case of over-engineering a solution to a problem. No signalling system is ever going to be 100% reliable when refuelling but the Traffic light System places too much reliance on technology. It provides a double edged threat. First if it goes wrong, it is difficult to replace it quickly with another system as a malfunction is difficult to detect in time. Second the driver has complete confidence in it and he reacts instantly to it without question. Had it been a manual system he might have seen something in his mirrors.

[bazanaius]

The ferrari system was manually activated at this point - hence it was human error (even if there was a problem with the rig, this was not why massa was cleared to leave).

Coulthard's problem was not a rig problem - it was a jumpy lollipop guy problem

Barrichello had electrical problems

Massa's lack of pit fire was not lucky, the rig is 100% designed to fail like that. It has built in mechanisms to prevent fuel leaking as it fails, and to fail in a controlled way.

I think there may be a problem with the rig in the heat, but I'd say that the majority of errors this weekend were with the humans operating them or letting the drivers go - more care and attention is required I think, to make sure that the rigs are detached before drivers are released.

NB pgj - drivers are actively discouraged from 'rig watching' in their mirrors. It's very dangerous as their view is obstructed, and they should rely on the lollipop man who in theory has a better idea of when they can be let out.
I know Raikkonen got in trouble for it at Mac, and I believe LH has been warned a few times too

[andartop]

It hurts me to admit it, but for me the most shocking aspect of Massa's pit-stop incident today was how everyone panicked after the incident occurred: Massa did not know whether he should go on or stop by the side or stop at the end of the pit lane, and his mechanics did not have a clue whether they should stay put or start running after him or start praying. I think this cost them even more time than the actual incident itself. It was so frustrating, exactly because this was not the first time something like that happens during a pit stop, and even if it was, they still should have been prepared to deal with it pronto. You definitely do not win Championships if you spend millions of euros to gain 0,2'' per lap and then waste half a minute or so (=the gain of 150 laps!) because something happened and you were not prepared to deal with it. How much imagination does someone need to have to sit down and prepare 5-10 different possible scenarios and another 10 impossible scenarios and then figure out a procedure to deal with them in the improbable case they do occur?
For all the people who have drawn comparisons with other sports before, I know the referee's rulebook in soccer includes the highly improbable scenario of the ball striking an aeroplane after a shoot and ending up in one of the goals (no, it's not a goal)! That is good foresight to avoid an embarrassing situation...

[WhiteBlue]

even with human error playing a part today the root problem was releasing the fuel hose from two of the cars. and that is a repeat problem.

I agree that Ferrari effed up like hell. for all the observers on 30 computers they have, the TV viewers knew much earlier than the mechanics that Massa was parked on the end of the pit lane with a hose still attached waiting for help. why did none of the bigshot at the command center oder at least one man to go there immediately? now they will be telling us the usual bull about a big review on monday. the truth is that Ferrari has turned headless chickens again.

[Rob W]

why did none of the bigshot at the command center oder at least one man to go there immediately? now they will be telling us the usual bull about a big review on monday. the truth is that Ferrari has turned headless chickens again.

I agree. They would have told him on the radio instantly that he had the rig... at least a couple of guys should have been sprinting within five seconds. Their delaying cost him another 15-20 at least, if not more (without factoring in their running speed ).

R

[zac510]

The ITV commentators didn't notice or didn't comment on Ferrari using the lollipop for the 2 final stops. They played it safe.

[Josep Sunyol]

The ITV commentators didn't notice or didn't comment on Ferrari using the lollipop for the 2 final stops. They played it safe.

More like one of the pit crew ppl just smashed it apart in rageee!

[Rob W]

I just watched the video again and, incredibly it took 20 seconds after Kimi left the pit box before anyone from the pit crew even started running down to Massa... which took another 35-40 seconds.

If someone had left right away from Massa leaving the pit (about 12 seconds before Kimi left) he would likely have been 30-40 seconds further up the track.

That was poor communication (and/or panic).

R