ChampCar 2005 > F1 2005

[Scotracer]

Conceptual, I don't really see a point driving a car that was designed to be used with sertain set of driver aids without any. I mean in reality F1 had TC in 2005 so you should have made your comparisson using it.

I agree. The 2005/2007 car was designed with TCS in mind so I use them with it as the tyres work best with it. With the 2008 car I can drive it without TCS but my driving style suits TCS better.

I use a G25, btw.

The CCWS cars did have TCS too.

[Conceptual]

Conceptual, I don't really see a point driving a car that was designed to be used with sertain set of driver aids without any. I mean in reality F1 had TC in 2005 so you should have made your comparisson using it.

I agree. The 2005/2007 car was designed with TCS in mind so I use them with it as the tyres work best with it. With the 2008 car I can drive it without TCS but my driving style suits TCS better.

I use a G25, btw.

The CCWS cars did have TCS too.

I don't know. Telling me that I need to use TC with these cars is like telling me that I also shouln't run the CCWS cars on Monaco, or Spa since they didn't run on those tracks in their lifetime.

When I play rFactor, the true thrill that I get from it is setting up the car for the course. My friend is a MUCH more consistant driver than I am, so I watch him lap, watch the tyres, check for bottoming out, calculate the fuel for pitstops, and then adjust the settings as necessary.

I believe that if I can get the F1 2005 to do 1:07's on Toban GP, without TC, and have every tyre within 1 degree of eachother, that I have effectively removed the necessity for TC. Remember, even driving with TC, if you are perfect on the throttle, it never engages anyways, so the really good drivers that are using TC isnt using it anyways.

Some get the thrill of winning races, I thrill on setting up cars to run on courses that they would never attempt in real life (CCWS on LIENZ), without using any drivers aids at all, so my friend can then run the race, and win.

I would love to try it on a real race car, but I doubt that it would be as easy as it is in rFactor. It would still be fun to try!

[modbaraban]

Don't get me wrong. I didn't try to tell you what to do. It was just my response to the topic name and what I read in your posts (i.e. contradiction). I clearly nuderstand the fun of driving without TC etc. But driving for fun won't drive you to any worthwhile conclusuions while comparing 2 real life series... not to mention that the mods can be inaccurate.

...if you are perfect on the throttle, it never engages anyways, so the really good drivers that are using TC isnt using it anyways.

That's in theory. But I've never seen an onboard lap of a TC equipped F1 car w/o the TC noise to kick in at least once.

[Conceptual]

Don't get me wrong. I didn't try to tell you what to do. It was just my response to the topic name and what I read in your posts (i.e. contradiction). I clearly nuderstand the fun of driving without TC etc. But driving for fun won't drive you to any worthwhile conclusuions while comparing 2 real life series... not to mention that the mods can be inaccurate.

...if you are perfect on the throttle, it never engages anyways, so the really good drivers that are using TC isnt using it anyways.

That's in theory. But I've never seen an onboard lap of a TC equipped F1 car w/o the TC noise to kick in at least once.

1. There is no contradiction, since I made it very clear in the original post that I spoke of rFactor. Comparing two mods, with zero drivers aides. The contradiction came from people (you) who complained that to measure a videogame accurately, I needed to hold to their real world equivalent, which is simply rediculous.

2. That is because the drivers leaned on the TC, since the computer was programmed to sort it all out. I remember an interview with Jenson Button where he was talking about coming out of corners as wide as possible to have as little TC interference as possible. In my personal opinion, TC in racecars should only be on the lowest possible setting, so the driver still needs to drive 99%, but that last 1% can save a race instead of hitting a wall.

But in a video game comparison, with all things being equal, the 2005 CCWS tromps the 2005 F1 car in the fun factor. You can beat it like a dog, and it will stick corners that the F1 car can only dream of.

If that is painful for you, I apologize, but please remember, it is just a game.

[ESPImperium]

Personally ill stick to Race Driver: GRID for my non F1 needs and F1 Championship Edition for my F1 needs.

BUT i cannot wait till i get my hands on the Codemasters style of F1 next year.

[Scotracer]

Don't get me wrong. I didn't try to tell you what to do. It was just my response to the topic name and what I read in your posts (i.e. contradiction). I clearly nuderstand the fun of driving without TC etc. But driving for fun won't drive you to any worthwhile conclusuions while comparing 2 real life series... not to mention that the mods can be inaccurate.

...if you are perfect on the throttle, it never engages anyways, so the really good drivers that are using TC isnt using it anyways.

That's in theory. But I've never seen an onboard lap of a TC equipped F1 car w/o the TC noise to kick in at least once.

1. There is no contradiction, since I made it very clear in the original post that I spoke of rFactor. Comparing two mods, with zero drivers aides. The contradiction came from people (you) who complained that to measure a videogame accurately, I needed to hold to their real world equivalent, which is simply rediculous.

2. That is because the drivers leaned on the TC, since the computer was programmed to sort it all out. I remember an interview with Jenson Button where he was talking about coming out of corners as wide as possible to have as little TC interference as possible. In my personal opinion, TC in racecars should only be on the lowest possible setting, so the driver still needs to drive 99%, but that last 1% can save a race instead of hitting a wall.

But in a video game comparison, with all things being equal, the 2005 CCWS tromps the 2005 F1 car in the fun factor. You can beat it like a dog, and it will stick corners that the F1 car can only dream of.

If that is painful for you, I apologize, but please remember, it is just a game.

I really don't know what you are doing because I think the CCWS '05 mod is one of the twitchiest out there. The cars have a severe oversteer tendency that I don't have the patience to dial out. CTDP 2005 on the other hand is the exact opposite; it has a severe understeer tendency. So from that regard I'd say the CTDP mod is the one that allows you to be more aggressive.

And anyway, the respective mods in rFactor are far from realistic as they are about 80% guesses on how the cars should react. The tyre models are the biggest failure of rFactor...and what do you know, tyres are the single biggest differentiator of a cars performance. If you wish to try out a Champ car mod, please download this:

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... 20Prologue

This uses a fair bit of real data and input from drivers. This is a nice mod but again, the cars do love to oversteer. I do not like an oversteering car, I prefer mild understeer which makes the car more balanced on corner exit and allows me to be heavier on the throttle.

Personally ill stick to Race Driver: GRID for my non F1 needs and F1 Championship Edition for my F1 needs.

BUT i cannot wait till i get my hands on the Codemasters style of F1 next year.

I could not play GRiD for more than five minutes. The handling engine appears to have been coded by a 5 year old chimp left with a dodgy keyboard. Sure, you can learn to play a game in a specific manner (as you would with say Project Gotham Racing) but GRID just seemed so inconsistent. It does have one redeeming feature though - the crash physics are quite nice.

Although my opinion of the game will be skewed as I am a realism whore.

[Conceptual]

I really don't know what you are doing because I think the CCWS '05 mod is one of the twitchiest out there. The cars have a severe oversteer tendency that I don't have the patience to dial out. CTDP 2005 on the other hand is the exact opposite; it has a severe understeer tendency. So from that regard I'd say the CTDP mod is the one that allows you to be more aggressive.

And anyway, the respective mods in rFactor are far from realistic as they are about 80% guesses on how the cars should react. The tyre models are the biggest failure of rFactor...and what do you know, tyres are the single biggest differentiator of a cars performance. If you wish to try out a Champ car mod, please download this:

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... 20Prologue

This uses a fair bit of real data and input from drivers. This is a nice mod but again, the cars do love to oversteer. I do not like an oversteering car, I prefer mild understeer which makes the car more balanced on corner exit and allows me to be heavier on the throttle.

Personally ill stick to Race Driver: GRID for my non F1 needs and F1 Championship Edition for my F1 needs.

BUT i cannot wait till i get my hands on the Codemasters style of F1 next year.

I could not play GRiD for more than five minutes. The handling engine appears to have been coded by a 5 year old chimp left with a dodgy keyboard. Sure, you can learn to play a game in a specific manner (as you would with say Project Gotham Racing) but GRID just seemed so inconsistent. It does have one redeeming feature though - the crash physics are quite nice.

Although my opinion of the game will be skewed as I am a realism whore.

Scotracer, have you tried the setups that I emailed you yet?

And ESP, I installed GRID 2 days ago, and still cannot play because my USB gamepad (PS2 clone) is not recognized. I have found a few "hacks" to allow almost any gamepad, but none has worked yet.

But, from what the car feels like with the keyboard, the lag would drive me crazy. It is like you must do all moves a heartbeat before you want them to happen. That to me makes driving it more like guessing it, and I am sincerely hoping that it does not handle like that with the gamepad.

And I seriously hope that Codemasters does not put it in the new F1 game. F1CE for the PS3 was done very well (no FFB), so I hope that they stick more with that than with what they did with GRID.

[Scotracer]

No, I cannot get CTDP 2005 to work after I had to format my PC. It just crashes my rFactor

Oh well.

[Conceptual]

No, I cannot get CTDP 2005 to work after I had to format my PC. It just crashes my rFactor

Oh well.

Actually, I only sent the CCWS setups, and a few ProCar setups...

If anyone else wants these, PM me. I must say that we have worked on these settings for a few dozen (hundred?) hours, so they work very well (without driver aides, dont know if turning any on will change the way they handle...)

Scot, check out the CCWS setups that I emailed you if you have the 2005 mod installed. I suggest turning off TC, but maybe leaving ABS on low. I find that helps my lap times much more than TC does.

Chris