Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
Paul
11
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 19:33

Re: Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post

Elimination qualifying- everyone starts from grid position corresponding to their championship position, after each lap last car through the line is eliminated and gets its grid position for the race. At least we could see more overtaking attempts than at a typical race (focusing on battle for second from last) and also strategic decisions, like fuelling for ten laps targeting 10th or 12th or 14th position. :D

ESPImperium
ESPImperium
64
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 00:08
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post

Fuel - Cars are filled up with 200Kg of fuel for the weekend, that includes Free Practice, Quali and Race, with a standardised fuel pump and fuel feed to engine system, making the teams develop more economical engines.

Engine Emissions - All engines to be tested for exhaust emissions twice each race weekend. Emissions should fall within UK standards for the £35 a year road tax band. Also monitored by SECU.

KERS/Energy Recovery - Allow up to 5 times as much juice as we currently have, but teams have to choose from either 20% of lap-time at maximum power or a "always on" but much lower power output style. Standardised KERS Systems, but have 2 types; Battery and Flywheel. A standardised KERS system can be bought for $900,000 for a season. 4 Wheel drive permitted, but front wheel motors should be restricted to no more than 20% of the power available overall.

Engines & Gearboxes - Each driver has 5 engines for each season, 1 for testing. Each driver has 3 gearboxes per season, 1 for testing. NO Rebuilds allowed. Each new gearbox or engine will permit a 10 place grid drop, as current rule is. Each engine should not cost more than $450,000, meaning that a team can buy a supply of engines for $5.4m each year. Gearboxes should not cost more than $150,000, meaning that a supply can be bought for $1.2m a season.

Engines Other - No Rev Limits, but cooling systems must be reduced by 30% on current systems. All engines must have a standardised engine mounting system, making it easier for teams to change engine supplier without major surgery or any surgery to shoe-horn an engine in the back of their car.

Aero - Reduce front wing size to 2008 size, but with 2009 spec regs. Basically, the width and height, but the look of the 2009 wings. Rear Wings to be made wider, but lower, somewhere in-between 2008 and 2009 wing sizes. Flexible front and rear wings allowed for each team. Current rules for the rest of the car are applicable in a bid for continuity and stability in the rules. Free up some areas, like the centre line.

Tyres - Front and rear tyres to be made 10% smaller in size in the rear, but 20% smaller width wise on the front. Make them look like a 1991-1994 slick tyre. Tyre allocations should be 7 Sets of slicks (5 sets of Primes, 2 sets of options) 4 sets of inters and 4 sets of wets per race. Teams must still use both sets of tyres, but each car must use a set of each in Quali and the race. Making tyre choices more crucial

Suspension - 25% of all suspension components must be made of non-carbon materials on the front, and 60% of all suspension components in the rear must be made of non-carbon materials.

General Others - Car weights to increase to 625KG to makes sure larger drivers aren’t pushed away from the sport. Non budget capped cars will have a 20kg weight placed above their gearbox in a aid to make them less driveable to give the budget capped teams a driveability advantage.

Telemetry - All teams must use a standardised telemetry system, all relayed in real time -1 lap to every team can see where each car is. Telemetry is made wholly available 90 minutes after a session to everyone. Limited live Telemetry is available to fans via F1 Live timing, but wholly 90 minutes after the session.

Sporting Rules - Pre Season scruteneering, lets avoid the debacle we had this year with the DDD. If the scruteneers deem it legal at a certain date, its legal for the rest of the season. Same goes for advantages found mid season as well, if its deemed legal, its legal for the season.

Teams - No team should have no more than 100 people at each race weekend, that includes engineers, press officers, team management. Hospitality staffing is also included. Drivers and Named driver assistants are also excluded, but each driver must only have no more than one assistant. Hospitality areas in the paddock are limited to the size of the size of the current Brawn GP/Williams/Renault models, no massive pieces of architecture like the McLaren one.

BUDGET CAP - Budget capped teams will all have to used Standardised engines, gearboxes, KERS and suspension components. Budget cap will be set at an initial £75million, increasing or decreasing each year by world rate of inflation.
Last edited by ESPImperium on 24 May 2009, 00:22, edited 1 time in total.

Dukeage
Dukeage
0
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 21:28

Re: Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post

ESPImperium wrote:Fuel - Cars are filled up with 200Kg of fuel for the weekend, that includes Free Practice, Quali and Race, with a standardised fuel pump and fuel feed to engine system, making the teams develop more economical engines.

Engines & Gearboxes - Each driver has 5 engines for each season, 1 for testing. Each driver has 3 gearboxes per season, 1 for testing. NO Rebuilds allowed. Each new gearbox or engine will permit a 10 place grid drop, as current rule is. Each engine should not cost more than $450,000, meaning that a team can buy a supply of engines for $5.4m each year. Gearboxes should not cost more than $150,000, meaning that a supply can be bought for $1.2m a season.

Engine Emissions - All engines to be tested for exhaust emissions twice each race weekend. Emissions should fall within UK standards for the £35 a year road tax band. Also monitored by SECU.
Would it be possible to build cars that are capable of maintaining current lap times with those rules - especially with the limit that would put F1 cars in the same tax band as Chris Martin's favourite milk float? No-one would want to

With the 200KG of fuel limit people won't need to turn up for Fridays, as each FP session would be like the first 15 minutes of the old qualifying session but six times the length. A Group B style limit of (say) 125KG per race and calculate that out as a per lap average for quali and practice would be more effective if a fuel limit is needed rather than working that policy in reverse (power limit with fuel economy bonuses).

However, 94 grand is a more sensible cap for an engine than a gearbox.
KERS/Energy Recovery - Allow up to 5 times as much juice as we currently have, but teams have to choose from either 20% of lap-time at maximum power or a "always on" but much lower power output style. Standardised KERS Systems, but have 2 types; Battery and Flywheel. A standardised KERS system can be bought for $900,000 for a season. 4 Wheel drive permitted, but front wheel motors should be restricted to no more than 20% of the power available overall.
Doesn't a standard KERS system defeat the object of it - not reducing the stuff coming out of the tailpipe of an F1 car (which in the grand scheme of things is minimal), but having competition to develop the technology? I'm looking forward to the Williams flywheel system (hopefully) materializing.
Engines Other - No Rev Limits, but cooling systems must be reduced by 30% on current systems. All engines must have a standardised engine mounting system, making it easier for teams to change engine supplier without major surgery or any surgery to shoe-horn an engine in the back of their car.
More standardization in engine moutings would be a good idea but would be difficult to do.
Aero - Reduce front wing size to 2008 size, but with 2009 spec regs. Basically, the width and height, but the look of the 2009 wings. Rear Wings to be made wider, but lower, somewhere in-between 2008 and 2009 wing sizes. Flexible front and rear wings allowed for each team. Current rules for the rest of the car are applicable in a bid for continuity and stability in the rules. Free up some areas, like the centre line.
Surely it would be better to reduce non road-relevant technologies from the aero whilst maintiaining the current things - rather than freedom, what about a specific ban of downforce generating items aside from the front and rear wings, as well as a ban on those sodding dustbin lids by a control wheel? Flexible wings would basically be a full legalization of movable aerodynamic devices which would make the cars faster around corners (however, I estimate that no more than 400hp could be generated by your proposed rules, but that's an unscientific guesstimate).
Tyres - Front and rear tyres to be made 10% smaller in size in the rear, but 20% smaller width wise on the front. Make them look like a 1991-1994 slick tyre. Tyre allocations should be 7 Sets of slicks (5 sets of Primes, 2 sets of options) 4 sets of inters and 4 sets of wets per race. Teams must still use both sets of tyres, but each car must use a set of each in Quali and the race. Making tyre choices more crucial
Good to see that I'm not the only person that feels an extra set of full wets is needed for safety reasons, however I don't think making the tyres small would make them look better - maybe widen them to make them look a little 70s/80s.
Suspension - 251% of all suspension components must be made of non-carbon materials on the front, and 60% of all suspension components in the rear must be made of non-carbon materials.
Why not go the whole hog and totally ban carbon from the suspension, like F3 and Le Mans? Carbon fibre suspension is not road relevant at all, as for the forseeable future it will not be viable to fit non-performance cars with CF suspension due to the cost.
General Others - Car weights to increase to 625KG to makes sure larger drivers aren’t pushed away from the sport. Non budget capped cars will have a 20kg weight placed above their gearbox in a aid to make them less driveable to give the budget capped teams a driveability advantage.
Nice to see that someone agrees with me that larger drivers need to be retained, the FIA have raised the minimum weight to 625kg. However, one issue is that it will be used as movable ballast by the lighter drivers, so if you were to stick a jockey in the car you would have a lot of scope for that. I propose a minimum weight for the driver in clothing, so that drivers who are under the minimum weight will have to carry ballast in the form of a weighted vest or under the seat if it courses fatigue issues - weighted vests are used in training for various sports, but I think wearing one whilst driving an F1 car might not be as pleasant an experience.
Telemetry - All teams must use a standardised telemetry system, all relayed in real time -1 lap to every team can see where each car is. Telemetry is made wholly available 90 minutes after a session to everyone. Limited live Telemetry is available to fans via F1 Live timing, but wholly 90 minutes after the session.
Sounds good that more should be publicised, but surely if everything was live it would be better for TV, like showing a driver's brake temperatures as they are forming up, or comparing cornering Gs at one corner - or for that matter showing a driver's heart rate rise during a pit stop. OK, F1 drivers don't always wear heart rate monitors but that's one thing that could be interesting.
Sporting Rules - Pre Season scruteneering, lets avoid the debacle we had this year with the DDD. If the scruteneers deem it legal at a certain date, its legal for the rest of the season. Same goes for advantages found mid season as well, if its deemed legal, its legal for the season.
Sounds sensible, unless anything grossly unsporting is found.
Teams - No team should have no more than 100 people at each race weekend, that includes engineers, press officers, team management. Hospitality staffing is also included. Drivers and Named driver assistants are also excluded, but each driver must only have no more than one assistant. Hospitality areas in the paddock are limited to the size of the size of the current Brawn GP/Williams/Renault models, no massive pieces of architecture like the McLaren one.
The manufacturers want to have their corporate hospitality to keep and gain sponsors as well as brownie points from Tokyo/Stuttgart/Maranello/Paris/Delete as Appropriate. Unless things have changed, dishing out food to people from sponsors won't make your cars faster. No prawn sandwich to a bloke from Vodafone gives you 25hp. However, a significantly lower cap on the actual people that do deal with the cars is clearly a sensible idea, Brawn probably have less guys there but it's not skeleton staff, and they work well.
BUDGET CAP - Budget capped teams will all have to used Standardised engines, gearboxes, KERS and suspension components. Budget cap will be set at an initial £75million, increasing or decreasing each year by world rate of inflation.
What about fixing it to the amount Bernie (under)pays the teams to put on a show for him to flog (or after the glorious revolution FOTA should be buying it, the revenue shares as BE would be out the way).

Some nice ideas that are practical, some nice ideas that aren't.

ESPImperium
ESPImperium
64
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 00:08
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post

Am going back to the drawing board with some of my ideas now. Such as suspension and fuel loads as well. Some engine specs i feel im gonna re do as well.

Will come back with some more homogonised ideas soon.

Pingguest
Pingguest
3
Joined: 28 Dec 2008, 16:31

Re: Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post

Back to the good old days but with some Group C-elements.

AERODYNAMICS
- The front wing reduced to a with of 140cm, two elements, no spec central part.
- The rear wing widened to 140cm, reduced to two elements and pre-1983 positioned.
- A ban on the diffuser and abolition of the skid block.
- Reintroduction of the low nose cone by mandating the reference plane to start in front of the front wheel axle.
- Maximum weidt to be 215cm (pre-1993).

ENGINES, KERS, FUEL CONSUMPTION & GEARBOX
- A ban on mid-race refuelling.
- The fuel tank size limited to 50 litres.
- Any engine configuration to be allowed.
- Unlimited numbers of engines and gearboxes may be used during the race weekend.
- KERS to be unlimited.
- Manual gearboxes mandatory.
- No standard but open source ECUs.

TYRES AND PITSTOPS
- Unlimited numbers of tyres may be used during the race weekend.
- Changing to any tyre compound should be possible during the entire race weekend.
- Maximum weight to be 21" (pre-1981).
- No control tyre.
- Tyre warmers to be banned.
- Pit lane speed limit lowered to 60 km/u (to make driver go round the whole distance one set of tyres).

OTHER DRIVER AIDS
- Active differentials to be banned
- No power braking and power steering allowed.
- Telemetry to be banned.
- Drive-by-wire prohibited.

QUALIFYING AND POINT SYSTEM
- A return to the 60 minutes qualifying session, without any limitations to the number of laps, engines and (qualifying) tyres.
- Abolition of the post-qualifying parc fermé.
- A return to the pre-2003 point scoring system.

Red = added by an edit.
Last edited by Pingguest on 24 May 2009, 21:40, edited 2 times in total.

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post

The Return of the turbos!

Those engines are limited to 800 horse power and can be any configuration, for example a V12 Bi Turbo, but also a V4 Quad Turbo is allowed, afterall they wont gain more then 800hp.
Allowing different tire companys to make tires.
Allow much bigger kers systems.
More bodywork freedom but maximum downforce elvels, let the teams see how they can hit the maximum downforce elvels moste fficiently.
Every part apart from suspension parts, brakes and other bodwork has to last 3 races.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

Dukeage
Dukeage
0
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 21:28

Re: Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post

Pingguest wrote:Back to the good old days but with some Group C-elements.

AERODYNAMICS
- The front wing reduced to a with of 140cm, two elements, no spec central part.
- The rear wing widened to 140cm, reduced to two elements and pre-1983 positioned.
- A ban on the diffuser and abolition of the skid block.
- Reintroduction of the low nose cone by mandating the reference plane to start in front of the front wheel axle.
Low noses do look good, however I don't think another major redesign of the wings would be popular- as for scrapping the skid block, we'd have ground effect all over again.
ENGINES, KERS, FUEL CONSUMPTION & GEARBOX
- A ban on mid-race refuelling.
- The fuel tank size limited to 50 litres.
- Any engine configuration to be allowed.
- Unlimited numbers of engines and gearboxes may be used during the race weekend.
- KERS to be unlimited.
- Manual gearboxes mandatory.
- No standard but open source ECUs.
Freeing up engines is a logical idea, but 50 litres? Group C gave you more than that for 100km. They'd probably lap slower than GP2 cars, or quite possible WSR ones.

As for unlimited engines, that's not road relevant and neither will it cut costs - presumably qualifying engines would be allowed too, so that would be two engines being built - one cooking one that is restricted to less than 0.2l/km, the other that burns through 50 litres in three laps or so. That would probably require building two chassis (as you propose scrapping parc ferme).
TYRES AND PITSTOPS
- Unlimited numbers of tyres may be used during the race weekend.
- Changing to any tyre compound should be possible during the entire race weekend.
- No control tyre.
- Tyre warmers to be banned.
- Pit lane speed limit lowered to 60 km/u (to make driver go round the whole distance one set of tyres).
Scrapping the control tyre would significantly increase tyre testing costs, and no limit to the numbers of tyres wouldn't be a good cost related issue. Tyre warmers should be banned, however. As refuelling would be banned, surely the time penalty for tyre changing will exist anyway?
OTHER DRIVER AIDS
- Active differentials to be banned
- No power braking and power steering allowed.
- Telemetry to be banned.
- Drive-by-wire prohibited.
Adjustable differentials could probably go. I don't see what would be achieved by scrapping power steering, drive-by-wire or power braking. Telemetry is useful to provide information to the TV feed, although it should be reigned in a little - by a control telemetry/data logging/display system.
QUALIFYING AND POINT SYSTEM
- A return to the 60 minutes qualifying session, without any limitations to the number of laps, engines and (qualifying) tyres.
- Abolition of the post-qualifying parc fermé.
- A return to the pre-2003 point scoring system.
The 10-6-4-3-2-1 points system does have advantages for series where somewhat more Banzai driving is encouraged. The current qualifying format is spectacular, and as for qualifying engines, I've already outlined why they aren't a good idea. Post qualifying parc ferme manages to get rid of things like qualifying only parts (Ferrari tried a qualifying oil at some point).

User avatar
gcdugas
8
Joined: 19 Sep 2006, 21:48

Re: Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post

Keep tire and rim warmers. Keep refueling! No tire changes during refueling stops. This encourages a race distance tire but does not mandate it. No more flat spotted tire blow-ups are necessary. Less marbles = a wider line to pass.

Torque steer braking (bias to outside tires) allowed. No more carbon brakes... ceramics encouraged. Any size and placement of brake ducts, liquid cooling allowed. Longer braking distances = more passing.

Metal suspension wishbones. On-board starters and radiator fans (cars must be able to idle for 30 minutes without overheating - remember Australia 1998?... this helps reliability if the cars get stacked up at pit stops during a safety car etc.)

Any configuration engine. Any size and aspect ratio for tires. Any width/tract of the cars. Driver equalization ballast only, no minimum weight.

Any fuel type allowed, diesel, "pump" gasoline, hydrogen, methanol etc. (no oxygen carrying "nitro" fuel or additives allowed).

Front and rear wing formulas would be simplified as 75% of the car width by a very short longitudinal chord length, maximum two elements, to be placed anywhere the designers see fit... high, low, forward, back etc.

Get rid of the "silly" plate. Require a flat bottom to be equal to 50% of the car's area when viewed from above. Allow ground effects (no movable skirts) everywhere else, under the sidepods for example. (Diffusers work by ground effects BTW).

AWD, CVTs allowed. Any size "Ram Air" intake allowed.

No more Max... he would be banished and all podium celebrations would entail spitting upon his picture after the anthems are played.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post

gcdugas wrote: No more Max... he would be banished and all podium celebrations would entail spitting upon his picture after the anthems are played.
ROFLMAO - when did they do these things the last time? Feudal societies? Sometimes your posts are quite revealing.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

User avatar
gcdugas
8
Joined: 19 Sep 2006, 21:48

Re: Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post

WhiteBlue wrote:
gcdugas wrote: No more Max... he would be banished and all podium celebrations would entail spitting upon his picture after the anthems are played.
ROFLMAO - when did they do these things the last time? Feudal societies? Sometimes your posts are quite revealing.

In more advanced feudal times, as opposed to our fascist times, they would piss and defecate upon the likeness of evil rulers. Ahhhh, the good old days! :lol: :lol:
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1

Conceptual
Conceptual
0
Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: Ideas thread - what rule changes would you do for '10 &'11

Post

gcdugas wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:
gcdugas wrote: No more Max... he would be banished and all podium celebrations would entail spitting upon his picture after the anthems are played.
ROFLMAO - when did they do these things the last time? Feudal societies? Sometimes your posts are quite revealing.

In more advanced feudal times, as opposed to our fascist times, they would piss and defecate upon the likeness of evil rulers. Ahhhh, the good old days! :lol: :lol:
Ya, now disagreeing with these rulers makes you a "Terrorist"...

I hate fascism, and I hope that the good people stand up against it.