Max Mosely has to go

[ISLAMATRON]

The FOTA proposal was perfectly acceptable

No it is not, the super rich team will just dominate the new teams and they will be left for dead. Then the manufacterers who are failing both in business and in F1 will pull out just as Honda did... then who is left? Ferrari & McLaren maybe... hmmm 4 car grid maybe... very interesting that would be... ever seen the 2005 USGP?

And while SAR & Honda were pulling out I dont know if you noticed but ING and RBS, and several other huge sponsors have pulled out as well. If F1 remained satus quo it would continue to disintigrate without the possiblity of any new teams coming in.

The Budget cap is a good idea.... that is why we have seen so many teams interested in joining when in the last 5 years or so we have only seen people pulling OUT of F1.

The two tier rules was a bad idea... but I think it was a negotiating point, as Max has already agreed to pull it out of the regs.

Luca is just as much an unstable tyrant as MAx is... so what is the big difference about which one of the 2 has the power?

[timbo]

No it is not, the super rich team will just dominate the new teams and they will be left for dead. Then the manufacterers who are failing both in business and in F1 will pull out just as Honda did... then who is left? Ferrari & McLaren maybe... hmmm 4 car grid maybe... very interesting that would be... ever seen the 2005 USGP?

You seem to forget that FOTA proposal included obligation for FOTA team to be in F1 until, at least, 2012. Can you expect that from Lightspeed?

The Budget cap is a good idea.... that is why we have seen so many teams interested in joining when in the last 5 years or so we have only seen people pulling OUT of F1.

Or it is that FIA only asks for 309,000 entry fee and promises transport support and 10 mil advance?
And are you sure 40 million+ is easily manageable for new entrant?

[timd]

We seem to forget that Formula 1 has been running since time began with no budget cap and new teams came along to compete.

Now we are in a position where like a lot of other things in the world rather than making small changes to see the effect they have before making further. We are takeing massive swipes at the rules. Its nonsense. Its bad science and its bad buisness. Its the very boom bust approach which F1 is supposed to be trying to avoid.

I agree that 350 mill budgets cant go on but so does the FOTA. You will take note that ALL teams agreed on these proposals not just Mclaren and Ferrari.

A year or so ago when they talked about Jean Todt being the next presedent i thought what a disaster it would be putting a ferarri man at the top. Now i would welcome him with open arms.

BTW i am not a ferarri fan in the slightest. I happen to enjoy watching them blow their engines both in F1 and their brakes set on fire on the track myself

I do however side with them and FOTA's train of thought on stopping all these rash rule changes and doing things in a stepwise logical approach.

[ISLAMATRON]

No it is not, the super rich team will just dominate the new teams and they will be left for dead. Then the manufacterers who are failing both in business and in F1 will pull out just as Honda did... then who is left? Ferrari & McLaren maybe... hmmm 4 car grid maybe... very interesting that would be... ever seen the 2005 USGP?

You seem to forget that FOTA proposal included obligation for FOTA team to be in F1 until, at least, 2012. Can you expect that from Lightspeed?

Contingent on a new Concorde which we all agree should give ALL the teams (including litespeed in the very far off chance they were chosen) more FOM money. Why are the FOTA playing hardball with Max, when he is trying to reduce costs, when they should be battling with BE trying to scrape more loot from BE's pockets?

The Budget cap is a good idea.... that is why we have seen so many teams interested in joining when in the last 5 years or so we have only seen people pulling OUT of F1.

Or it is that FIA only asks for 309,000 entry fee and promises transport support and 10 mil advance?
And are you sure 40 million+ is easily manageable for new entrant?

With transport plus 10 mil cash in hand plus points money & cheap drivetrains they should be somewhat competitive and commercially viable... they would actually have to be assholes to not be able to turn a profit.

[timbo]

With transport plus 10 mil cash in hand plus points money & cheap drivetrains they should be somewhat competitive and commercially viable... they would actually have to be assholes to not be able to turn a profit.

Why then FIA never did same thing before? The best thing they could do for new teams is to allow them use customer chassis. To satisfy Williams they could only award CC points to the makers of their own.

[ISLAMATRON]

We seem to forget that Formula 1 has been running since time began with no budget cap and new teams came along to compete.

Now we are in a position where like a lot of other things in the world rather than making small changes to see the effect they have before making further. We are takeing massive swipes at the rules. Its nonsense. Its bad science and its bad buisness. Its the very boom bust approach which F1 is supposed to be trying to avoid.

I agree that 350 mill budgets cant go on but so does the FOTA. You will take not that ALL teams agreed on these proposals not just Mclaren and Ferrari.

A year or so ago when they talked about Jean Todt being the next presedent i thought what a disaster it would be putting a ferarri man at the top. Now i would welcome him with open arms.

BTW i am not a ferarri fan in the slightest. I happen to enjoy watching them blow their engines both in F1 and their brakes set on fire on the track myself

I do however side with them and FOTA's train of thought on stopping all these rash rule changes and doing things in a stepwise logical approach.

When was the last time a new team came into the sport? SAR... and what happened to them? and the last new team before them? and how many teams have we lost since that team? how many bankrupt attempts just to run the Jordan franchise?

All the rules changes were agreed to by the teams/FOTA... every single one... most were proposed by them.
We have even learned recently that FErrari held a VEto which they could have used at any time... please do not overlook this.

The only rash rule changes made that FOTA has not agreed to is the budget cap, and only because a couple of the teams refuse to give up their financial advantage over the whole field... but that very financial advantage is what has made it so difficult for the small teams to compete and ultimately led to their dissolution.

The only reason the indy teams have stuck to FOTA is because that is their only way to squeeze more money from BE... soon enuff they will abandon FOTA for their own benefit just as Ferrari abandoned GPMA for its own. FErrari already is contracted to a spot locked up on 2010 grid so they can play chicken alot longer than Force India for instance. But the Indy teams can only get more money if they team up with Ferrari, FErrari doesnt care about more money from BE, they want to maintain their advantage financially and over the rules with their golden Veto... like they say politics makes strange bed fellows.

[Conceptual]

The two tier rules was a bad idea... but I think it was a negotiating point, as Max has already agreed to pull it out of the regs.
Luca is just as much an unstable tyrant as MAx is... so what is the big difference about which one of the 2 has the power?

Source?

I don't believe that has yet been disclosed.

[ISLAMATRON]

With transport plus 10 mil cash in hand plus points money & cheap drivetrains they should be somewhat competitive and commercially viable... they would actually have to be assholes to not be able to turn a profit.

Why then FIA never did same thing before? The best thing they could do for new teams is to allow them use customer chassis. To satisfy Williams they could only award CC points to the makers of their own.

Its not the FIA funding the new teams, it is BE... that is his way of stopping the FOTA teams from asking for more money... cause BE gotta pay his pimp CVC.

Customer chassis would be great for the new teams(& FIF1 & STR) but they already have a binding contract with williams that wont allow them to do it... they tried a couple years back(when prodrive was coming in) but Williams went to court. They tried to compromise with Williams but Frank wasnt hearning none of it. Maybe thats why Williams left FOTA so quickly because we all heard FOTA contemplating customer cars being put back on the table? who knows with that one.

[ISLAMATRON]

The two tier rules was a bad idea... but I think it was a negotiating point, as Max has already agreed to pull it out of the regs.
Luca is just as much an unstable tyrant as MAx is... so what is the big difference about which one of the 2 has the power?

Source?

I don't believe that has yet been disclosed.

It wa disclossed quite some time ago... here is the clearest site I have on it

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/17/f1-s ... ari-takes/

But i remember clearly that in a direct Mosley interview(which many on this board read and it actually changed some minds) that he was not against removing the two tier aspects of he 2010 regs.

but it has not yet been done.

[Conceptual]

The two tier rules was a bad idea... but I think it was a negotiating point, as Max has already agreed to pull it out of the regs.
Luca is just as much an unstable tyrant as MAx is... so what is the big difference about which one of the 2 has the power?

Source?

I don't believe that has yet been disclosed.

It wa disclossed quite some time ago... here is the clearest site I have on it

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/17/f1-s ... ari-takes/

But i remember clearly that in a direct Mosley interview(which many on this board read and it actually changed some minds) that he was not against removing the two tier aspects of he 2010 regs.

but it has not yet been done.

I had not read that, but I must say that it doesn't really mean anything until the 2010 published regs are retracted...

[WhiteBlue]

Me, I am hoping they dont. But hey we all know .............. for whom the good of the sport is and has always been secondary. Power it seems is more important to him.

It is Ferrari who do not think of the good of the sport. Max Mosley unfortunately has to kick them to set things right.

[ISLAMATRON]

I had not read that, but I must say that it doesn't really mean anything until the 2010 published regs are retracted...

agreed... but if everybody is under the cap than there is no 2 tier... I think i've said that many times before.

even if the FOTA is thrown out I expect most of the 2010 aero regs to be thrown out. Extra KERS I expect to stay

[ISLAMATRON]

I had not read that, but I must say that it doesn't really mean anything until the 2010 published regs are retracted...

Watch this Mosley interview where he clearly says no 2 tier rules, straight from his mouth

http://axisofoversteer.blogspot.com/200 ... -goat.html

[Ciro Pabón]

I wonder where is this thread headed. Six edits in two pages? Please, guys, concentrate in Max, not in other forumers. As usual, at least from my side, facts are preferred over arguments "ad hominem" (thanks for the last link, Islam: "a link is worth a thousand words").

That's maybe not for me to say, but I also wonder if you can talk about "what Mosley does" instead of talking about "what Mosley is".

[WhiteBlue]

Ciro, what do you expect by a thread like that.