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I think Newey is under a lot of pressure. Expectation were unrealistically high towards him and then the first showing is unexpectedly bad. The contrast is huge.
I just read 1-2 days ago he said they will have the best aero by the 2nd half of the season.
This is so uncharacteristic from him. Usually he is really modest and restrains himself from definitive statements. Usually rather talking about challenges not resulst.
So seeing him talking like that tells me he must be in a very uncomfortable place right now.
He is not at Red Bull any longer. Horner knew how to get the best out of him by letting him do his thing. He was in and out of the F1 project and it was nothing like this.
Its also easier to do things when you have a really good technical team who can do things on their own like at Red Bull. Aston Martin might have all the talent but so far nothing indicates they have it figured out how to work in harmony.
Its tricky but its what he signed up for.
a lot of that is probably true, but honestly, we are making assumptions on the chassis and aero based on a bad power unit. it may be one of the best designs newey has ever produced with a team, and we would have no idea at this point.
Why do we assume the chassis is good? Its not like Aston have a history of making good chassis though. And Im struggling to see why people think hiring even thr greatest designer ever fixes inherent issues in the team.
Aston Martin and Adrian Newey are not doing themselves any favors by airing Honda's affairs here....That is absolutely one way to sour the relationship. What leaked from the F1 commmision meeting should not have leaked.
I think Newey is under a lot of pressure. Expectation were unrealistically high towards him and then the first showing is unexpectedly bad. The contrast is huge.
I just read 1-2 days ago he said they will have the best aero by the 2nd half of the season.
This is so uncharacteristic from him. Usually he is really modest and restrains himself from definitive statements. Usually rather talking about challenges not resulst.
So seeing him talking like that tells me he must be in a very uncomfortable place right now.
Has he actually said it or you saw one of those unsubstantiated twitter posts. Newey is an incredibly intelligent person, and I have never seen people of that caliber make such definitive statements.
For me he didn't do it to discredit Honda guys, it's a strategy to find an agreement with the FIA, some time ago there was talk of approving the Aduo already from race 3 or at the beginning of the season to help Engine manufacturers in trouble. Newey knows what he's doing and he's certainly doing it for the good of the team.
Anyway, news has come out that they haven't even tested the aero and frame, since they haven't had the chance. So they're unknowns (although they did do a few runs).
Nice.
This thread is like a hollywood movie, with many plot twists.
The topics have changed from :
being about the car, to
being about Honda & their capability (both in support & against) , to
being about Alonso & his character (both in support & against) , to
being a character study of so many 'other drivers' (even Kimi was brought in) , to
.. what next ?
and yet, no one (apart from two members) is addressing the elephant in the room :
How long will Lawrence Stroll wait ?
and if there is an answer to the above, based on what promise, and from whom ?
Unless there is someone who knows someone, who knows someone, who knows someone working in AMR, we will keep going in circles in this thread.
I think we should just freeze (with only moderators with write access) this thread until a day/two before Melbourne - will be better for everyone to relax a bit and come refreshed.
Lawrence wait for what ? Newey, Honda or both ?
In 2021, Lawrence made the comment that , this is a 10 year project to build a championship winning team.
5 years are already gone and team is on downward trajectory till date. He might have built this for Lance but he is a businessman at the core. He will dilute the stake if team value start eroding.
I don't think any of this has any effects on the value of the team from a macro perspective. He bought the team for 90 million and it's now worth over 3 billion. Unless F1 as a whole goes down in value, this team will hold it's value for the forseeable future.
"Several sources told BBC Sport this week that Newey said at Wednesday's meeting of the F1 Commission - a rule-making body comprising all the teams as well as F1 and the FIA - that the Honda power-unit could not even recover energy at the lower limit of 250kw, let alone the higher one of 350kw, which comes into force under certain circumstances in the highly complex rules.
Reliability was so bad that by the start of the final day of the test, Honda had only one battery left, and took the decision to limit running to only short runs. A statement said that was to allow them to study data in between track outings, but in the end Lance Stroll did only six laps all day.
The problems with the engine make it difficult to make any judgement on the car. There is no question it was slow in the corners - but the Honda is running so badly that it's hard for the team to work out where the car is, and therefore how to improve it.
This is exacerbated by the fact Aston's first in-house gearbox - they have bought them in previously - is not communicating with the engine properly, and keeps behaving oddly, making life even more difficult for the drivers.
So the "good news" is everything is broken on this car, not just the engine. Time for Stroll to call Audi and ask to buy their drivetrain /gearbox, battery package for 2027 and exit out of this mess as soon as possible. Honda won't be fixing this disaster any time soon, and I am not sure Aston will be able to get on top of the gearbox problems for months either. Perhaps Alonso should take some "maternity leave" with his new baby on the way and let Jak Crawford get some experience in this turd for the first 6 races.
Reported on BBC…….
Several sources told BBC Sport this week that Newey said at Wednesday's meeting of the F1 Commission - a rule-making body comprising all the teams as well as F1 and the FIA - that the Honda could not even recover at the lower limit of 250kw, let alone the higher one of 350kw, which comes into force under certain circumstances in the highly complex rules.
unbelievable !!!
Honda should buy the engine and transmission blueprints from Mercedes or Ferrari. otherwise AMR will be sick for 3 years like mclaren.
Maybe it would be easier for AM to just go back to Mercedes ?
Mercedes is already supplying to 3 customer teams. Difficult to imagine if they give their engines to Newey and get dominated. That's not happening. After humiliating 4 years, they don't want to lose the opportunity to win again.
RBPT could be a real opportunity as they have only one customer team. Newey relationship with Red Bull management can make the deal.
Even Audi could be an option as they have no customers and aren't really championship contenders. Will be happy to see how their engine works on a Newey car.
It seems like all the Honda engineers jumped the ship when Honda announced that they are leaving F1, in 2022. Might have joined RBPT consulting started by Yamamoto. When Honda decided later to stay in F1, they were probably left with no experienced engineers that built highly competent engines from 2019. Extremely poor execution by Honda management. They should leave F1, rather than having another arduous stint.
Honda should buy the engine and transmission blueprints from Mercedes or Ferrari. otherwise AMR will be sick for 3 years like mclaren.
Maybe it would be easier for AM to just go back to Mercedes ?
Mercedes is already supplying to 3 customer teams. Difficult to imagine if they give their engines to Newey and get dominated. That's not happening. After humiliating 4 years, they don't want to lose the opportunity to win again.
RBPT could be a real opportunity as they have only one customer team. Newey relationship with Red Bull management can make the deal.
Even Audi could be an option as they have no customers and aren't really championship contenders. Will be happy to see how their engine works on a Newey car.
It seems like all the Honda engineers jumped the ship when Honda announced that they are leaving F1, in 2022. Might have joined RBPT consulting started by Yamamoto. When Honda decided later to stay in F1, they were probably left with no experienced engineers that built highly competent engines from 2019. Extremely poor execution by Honda management. They should leave F1, rather than having another arduous stint.
None of the R&D people left Honda. Stop making --- up. Unfortunately, you don't have to leave Honda to not return to the Honda F1 project. Remember there are about 10k people working in Honda R&D. Lots of different projects you can work on.
I don't believe the story that the reason for Honda's struggles is because Red Bull Powertrains somehow hired almost the entire Honda F1 engine department, leaving Honda with almost no one and having to rebuild the department from scratch.
Firstly, it's basically impossible for RBPT to have hired everyone. Many of Honda's engineers work at HRC plant in Sakura and would hardly move to the UK to work in Milton Keynes. Furthermore, Honda still owns the patents and blueprints for its V6 Hybrid.
At no point was there a situation where Honda had to start something from absolute zero. They didn't simply forget how to make a V6 Hybrid engine because the people there who knew how to do it all left. Many of the people involved in the V6 Hybrid project are still with Honda.
And I'll go further: Even if they were in that situation, it doesn't explain them having a worse engine than Audi, which is starting its F1 V6 Hybrid engine project from scratch and so far, has presented few reliability issues and reasonable performance.
All this bashing of Honda and AMR is not going to work, There is a problem, the Team acknowledges the same and are working to rectify it.
This situation should not have happened; however, it is what it is, and there is no instant success in F1, need to be patient, there will be improvements...
I've spent my life criticizing Honda because I've always preferred Kawasaki. I've always criticized them for being too complicated: all my friends know this and I've even published articles comparing, for example, the cylinder heads of the famous CB750s with the magnificent ones, in my opinion, of the KZ900s. And now it turns out I have to defend Honda.
Look. The guys with the golden wing have manufactured all kinds of engine configurations. I'm sure they've manufactured more different engines than any of the current F1 engine suppliers. In other words, they know "something" about engine manufacturing.
But Honda is very particular and F1 is a madhouse right now with the new regulations. There's a fundamental flaw in the engine. At the very least. But we have Honda on our side. That's not bad at all.
They've also had problems in MotoGP. Márquez had to leave. But it was a difficult departure. Because Honda is Honda. And it's quite possible that when he says goodbye, he'll do so on a Honda.
It's a very difficult situation. Soichiro (the founder) was obsessed with making his motorcycles different. So the first thing he'd ask about any model was, "What does it have that the others don't?" I guess it's in their blood.
Meanwhile, I'm listening to Pink Floyd (Us & Them) with some cheap but good cava.
This is incredible. I hope it's just a scare and that Honda will unveil a more reliable engine in Melbourne.
Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.
Our first given factor is this team - with countless new people, new roles, etc. Not entirely new as Audi, or Cadillac, but like changed-a-lot-new. This may not be a problem itself, but if we look at things as they currently are, well, we need a bit more hermetic way of thinking (As of Hermes Trismegistos).
As above, so below. One of the simplest, yet most powerful truths in the world. And when we have an organization like Aramco AMH F1 team, that clearly shows that the crystalline structure of the entire organization hasn't formed/developed yet (=chaos). Such a chaotic end product like the AMR26 is clearly indicates the flaws of this unripe group. Imagine the NOISE there right now, which creates an even more tense environment to work in/with. Not a great start to have.
BUT. Some of us are a tiny bit closer to the fire, so we should examine the situation more closely, with a clear head. We have the following issues:
- ICE (as hardware, it is an adequate/good one as we heard it)
- electric motor (also good)
- battery (also good)
- fuel (has oil dilution issues)
- chassis (temporary?, with extremely bad behavior)
- gearbox (utter crap?)
These components as of things are right now just shouting into the wind on their own. There is absolutely no synergy between them. As the organization (above) is chaotic, the components also have this kind of collective energy (below). No wonder that the dunnowhat machinery called AMR26 is like it is. There is practically no communication between the ICE (torque characteristics) vs the electrical TC. The battery doesn't how to command/take part of the energy flow, so their mismatched state destroys the gearbox. The chassis itself is a weak one with flexing issues at the rear, extremely poor grip at the front, and because of the sudden electric torque peaks, the rear end stability is also crappy.
The result (and think of the whole again; including ourselves): no one understands anything. We don't understand the car's entire behavior, the ICE doesn't know how to interact with the other components and vice versa. Difficut situation? You bet.
But IF we all try to handle this situation - no matter how embarrassing is at the moment - we may experience a pleasant surprise later in the season when everybody is beginning to be talkative and friendly to each other. We should expand our field of consciousness and this can serve the understanding, the patience and at the same time, the solution as well. So let's wait for that crystalline structure to appear. Order out of this utter chaos. IF the drivers wil be able to provide very detailed, insightful feedback instead of the (understandable) anger, then normalcy returns soon. I certainly hope so.
Last edited by Bence on 21 Feb 2026, 06:40, edited 1 time in total.
I don't really understand how they can have severe battery issues. The battery capacity is supposed to be similar to last year and Honda have been making F1 batteries for years. But the battery has to deliver alot more juice to the MGU-K.
Could it be related to the solid state rumour around christmas? Maybe they have made a solid state battery that was in the car now but it's not working properly yet. Or maybe they were working on a solid state battery, and could not get it to work yet, so had to rush to make a traditional lithium battery pack in time for Barcelona and Bahrain, and so that one has issues since it was rushed?
I don't really understand how they can have severe battery issues. The battery capacity is supposed to be similar to last year and Honda have been making F1 batteries for years. But the battery has to deliver alot more juice to the MGU-K.
Could it be related to the solid state rumour around christmas? Maybe they have made a solid state battery that was in the car now but it's not working properly yet. Or maybe they were working on a solid state battery, and could not get it to work yet, so had to rush to make a traditional lithium battery pack in time for Barcelona and Bahrain, and so that one has issues since it was rushed?
Let us wait for the official Press Release from Honda, whatever we have heard is the statement from the trackside, Honda will be compelled to release an official statement after all the fiasco.
Cowell ( is the best person for that job) is there now, they will be solve their problems and make that PU competitive, but they will need time. Honda's progressive is slown than others and maybe this pissed off some people in Silverstone. They are capable, but, thei progressive is slow. Japanese people are known for their resilience and calm path They don't have the same hurry as the west of the world
I don't really understand how they can have severe battery issues. The battery capacity is supposed to be similar to last year and Honda have been making F1 batteries for years. But the battery has to deliver alot more juice to the MGU-K.
Could it be related to the solid state rumour around christmas? Maybe they have made a solid state battery that was in the car now but it's not working properly yet. Or maybe they were working on a solid state battery, and could not get it to work yet, so had to rush to make a traditional lithium battery pack in time for Barcelona and Bahrain, and so that one has issues since it was rushed?
It's in the post that Wazari sent in January:
Many people have been asking about next year's PU. It is on schedule and there also challenges that I think all the PU manufacturers are facing with regards to the electrical side of things. The energy store to electric motor output ratio is the biggest hurdle that we are facing. Drivability vs deployment vs recovery is where most of the engineering resources are being spent right now.
Maybe it would be easier for AM to just go back to Mercedes ?
Mercedes is already supplying to 3 customer teams. Difficult to imagine if they give their engines to Newey and get dominated. That's not happening. After humiliating 4 years, they don't want to lose the opportunity to win again.
RBPT could be a real opportunity as they have only one customer team. Newey relationship with Red Bull management can make the deal.
Even Audi could be an option as they have no customers and aren't really championship contenders. Will be happy to see how their engine works on a Newey car.
It seems like all the Honda engineers jumped the ship when Honda announced that they are leaving F1, in 2022. Might have joined RBPT consulting started by Yamamoto. When Honda decided later to stay in F1, they were probably left with no experienced engineers that built highly competent engines from 2019. Extremely poor execution by Honda management. They should leave F1, rather than having another arduous stint.
None of the R&D people left Honda. Stop making --- up. Unfortunately, you don't have to leave Honda to not return to the Honda F1 project. Remember there are about 10k people working in Honda R&D. Lots of different projects you can work on.
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