Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Mogster]

Well, I've been a huge fan of F1 since 90's, but Honda leaving will let me stopping seeing F1. I'm so sad right now...

Here is another one.

Add me to this list as #3.

Are you new to the sport? The Honda-cokey has been in full effect in F1 for the last 60 years. They join, spend lots of money catching up to the opposition then up and flounce away. After 5-10 years typically they start again. They’ve done this 4 times up to now.

[Wouter]

Here is another one.

Add me to this list as #3.

Are you new to the sport? The Honda-cokey has been in full effect in F1 for the last 60 years. They join, spend lots of money catching up to the opposition then up and flounce away. After 5-10 years typically they start again. They’ve done this 4 times up to now.

What does this have to do with the fact that we are sad about it?
It's no fun when your favorite engine supplier disappears from F1 while you hope for many more podiums and victories.

And ..... "Are you new to the sport?" That feeling is the same now as it was many years ago.
Bit of a strange question.

[godlameroso]

The vast majority of the cost involved with the engine is in development, not so much with manufacturing. You have stages of development, from cfd, to single cylinder, to engine on dyno. You have 4 or 5 different configurations that you are testing.

The engine development program for the year easily costs as much as a large team's budget.

Manufacturing the parts themselves is a relatively small part of that cost.

The 15 million euros it costs for year's supply of power units doesn't even scratch the costs of development. A manufacturer would have to supply the entire grid and only develop the power unit every other year in order to just break even with clever accounting.

[Marti_EF3]

Here is another one.

Add me to this list as #3.

Are you new to the sport? The Honda-cokey has been in full effect in F1 for the last 60 years. They join, spend lots of money catching up to the opposition then up and flounce away. After 5-10 years typically they start again. They’ve done this 4 times up to now.

That's nonsense. You can be a fan of F1 since 30 years or more, but that don't stop you from being sad or frustrated if your favorite engine, team or even driver leaves it. And now was worst, because now that they were recovering from the hell years from Mclaren, they decide to go out. It's like a Samurai thinking he is defeated, and commits seppuku.

[Roostfactor]

Here is another one.

Add me to this list as #3.

Are you new to the sport? The Honda-cokey has been in full effect in F1 for the last 60 years. They join, spend lots of money catching up to the opposition then up and flounce away. After 5-10 years typically they start again. They’ve done this 4 times up to now.

No @mogster I am not, but only have been following for 10 or so years.

First I was a young Hammy fan when he was killing it with the underdog Vodaphone against Vettel.

Then became super excited for the tech the 2014 formula would bring.

When I heard Honda was coming I was ecstatic as I have loved Honda since the 70's when their Elsinores cam out.

Then I painfully watched them get slaughtered week after week in races, bashed by almost everyone (mostly Mclaren), all while their hands were tied behind their backs with the bs token system.
(I fully understand that Honda underestimated the formula in the beginning)

I followed the Honda Power Unit thread religiously for years and really enjoyed the insights and then they finally started to turn with AT.
More solid progress with RB and AT so I had become even more encouraged to watch even with all of the bullocks of recent F1 rules/politics.

Now I'm thinking its just not worth it to follow anymore as most of the reasons I used to stay up with F1 no longer exist.

[tangodjango]

Add me to this list as #3.

Are you new to the sport? The Honda-cokey has been in full effect in F1 for the last 60 years. They join, spend lots of money catching up to the opposition then up and flounce away. After 5-10 years typically they start again. They’ve done this 4 times up to now.

No @mogster I am not, but only have been following for 10 or so years.

First I was a young Hammy fan when he was killing it with the underdog Vodaphone against Vettel.

Then became super excited for the tech the 2014 formula would bring.

When I heard Honda was coming I was ecstatic as I have loved Honda since the 70's when their Elsinores cam out.

Then I painfully watched them get slaughtered week after week in races, bashed by almost everyone (mostly Mclaren), all while their hands were tied behind their backs with the bs token system.
(I fully understand that Honda underestimated the formula in the beginning)

I followed the Honda Power Unit thread religiously for years and really enjoyed the insights and then they finally started to turn with AT.
More solid progress with RB and AT so I had become even more encouraged to watch even with all of the bullocks of recent F1 rules/politics.

Now I'm thinking its just not worth it to follow anymore as most of the reasons I used to stay up with F1 no longer exist.

Yeah we can only wish other PU manufacturers were as open as Honda about their technology. Those insights have been truly fascinating.

[_cerber1]

[NL_Fer]

Any chance that Andy Cowell could continue the Honda powerunit within the Redbull facilties in the UK?

I mean, with dynotime and development being restricted. He could recruit a small team and continue the final versions of 2022 and 2023.

[Big Tea]

Any chance that Andy Cowell could continue the Honda powerunit within the Redbull facilties in the UK?

I mean, with dynotime and development being restricted. He could recruit a small team and continue the final versions of 2022 and 2023.

I mentioned it in a post in the 'silly season' thread, but I don't think it is likely as a 'stand alone'. Lots of other things would have to come together to make it happen

[Craigy]

Any chance that Andy Cowell could continue the Honda powerunit within the Redbull facilties in the UK?

I mean, with dynotime and development being restricted. He could recruit a small team and continue the final versions of 2022 and 2023.

I mentioned it in a post in the 'silly season' thread, but I don't think it is likely as a 'stand alone'. Lots of other things would have to come together to make it happen

Interesting idea but I don't think you could spool up an engine program that fast even if you had all the facilities precanned.

I do wonder what Redbull are building though, beyond 114 more car parking spaces. For those who haven't seen it, the industrial estate they are based on is now blocked off (it's become a "redbull-only" campus) and they've bought a lot of adjacent land they are building stuff on.
They previously had several buildings on the same estate (like, 7 out of 12 or something like that) but I think once they got to some critical number (8? 9?) by buying out another company lease, they were allowed to make major revisions to the road layout and seal the place off.

I doubt it has anything to do with engines.

[etusch]

Any chance that Andy Cowell could continue the Honda powerunit within the Redbull facilties in the UK?

I mean, with dynotime and development being restricted. He could recruit a small team and continue the final versions of 2022 and 2023.

I mentioned it in a post in the 'silly season' thread, but I don't think it is likely as a 'stand alone'. Lots of other things would have to come together to make it happen

Interesting idea but I don't think you could spool up an engine program that fast even if you had all the facilities precanned.

I do wonder what Redbull are building though, beyond 114 more car parking spaces. For those who haven't seen it, the industrial estate they are based on is now blocked off (it's become a "redbull-only" campus) and they've bought a lot of adjacent land they are building stuff on.
They previously had several buildings on the same estate (like, 7 out of 12 or something like that) but I think once they got to some critical number (8? 9?) by buying out another company lease, they were allowed to make major revisions to the road layout and seal the place off.

I doubt it has anything to do with engines.

I am sure Honda never accept this but if Honda pu will be kept developing by other brand I would like to see it with Yamaha. I admire their engineering capabilities.

[63l8qrrfy6]

On my linkedin feed I see Honda MK engineers already looking for work..

[godlameroso]

Honda seeing out the 2021 season has me confused. Does this mean that Honda will keep developing the engine until the end of 2021? Seeing as the spec is frozen once the season starts we could expect Honda to pack up shop, and only leave enough personnel to run the power units. However they're allowed to upgrade the MGU-K and CE once but manufacturers don't really change MGU-K specs.

I'd like to see Honda develop an engine for 2022, then have Red Bull run it before switching to Renault for 2023.

It seems like Ferrari and Renault are the ones that need to aggressively develop their engines because they are making a layout switch, and this layout switch is not easy to engineer. Whereas Honda and Mercedes already are on a split turbo layout. They don't have to develop as aggressively, in fact I think Mercedes power unit development will also ramp down next year. With Andy Cowell's departure and near burn-out, the writing is on the wall.

I can't blame Honda for leaving the shark tank that is F1. Too many sharks in the pool all trying to take a bite out of "fresh meat".

[Craigy]

On my linkedin feed I see Honda MK engineers already looking for work..

Honda racing UK is still looking for an ERS engineer according to the job page. I wonder if they had any notice the plug was going to be pulled.

[Alexf1]

Honda seeing out the 2021 season has me confused. Does this mean that Honda will keep developing the engine until the end of 2021? Seeing as the spec is frozen once the season starts we could expect Honda to pack up shop, and only leave enough personnel to run the power units. However they're allowed to upgrade the MGU-K and CE once but manufacturers don't really change MGU-K specs.

I'd like to see Honda develop an engine for 2022, then have Red Bull run it before switching to Renault for 2023.

It seems like Ferrari and Renault are the ones that need to aggressively develop their engines because they are making a layout switch, and this layout switch is not easy to engineer. Whereas Honda and Mercedes already are on a split turbo layout. They don't have to develop as aggressively, in fact I think Mercedes power unit development will also ramp down next year. With Andy Cowell's departure and near burn-out, the writing is on the wall.

I can't blame Honda for leaving the shark tank that is F1. Too many sharks in the pool all trying to take a bite out of "fresh meat".

For Sakura work is probably almost over by now. 2021 engine development work is nearly finished by this time.